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  1. #1
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    Default Yamaha 600 series flutes

    One of these should be a good step-up for me. I see that they come with either an inline or offset G. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each? My main instrument is sax if that makes any difference. For the footjoint I've decided on the C foot. Any comments and opinions on these flutes would be appreciated. Thanks, RS.

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    The offset is easier to play and has less key binding. The inline is easier to sell to a flutist. I would rethink the C foot. If you ever decide to sell it in the US, it will be quite difficult to unload. The B-foot is the standard for higher end flutes in America. I would put a used 600 series with a C-foot at about $500 less on the US market.

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    Good advice from Bruce. In the US, a C-foot isn't as much in fashion (for better or worse). Offset G is much more comfortable, but in-line seems to be more common (this might be changing).
    You didn't say if you'll be going for closed or open-holed. There are lots of prior posts on that issue.
    My flute is an inline, B-foot, open hole Powell custom. I love it, but others much prefer other options.
    A Yamaha 600 series should be a wonderful flute. Best of luck. My other flute is a Yamaha 581. It's a great flute.

  4. #4

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    The inline is easier to sell to a flutist.
    Hmm.. I have a much harder time selling in line flutes then the offset. A lot of flute stores like Carolyn Nussbaum co. is only carrying offset models unless they are used of course. I think the younger crowd is getting smart and choosing the offset.

    I agree with Bruce as far as the B foot is concerned. But, if you are more comfortable with the C foot, then I would go with that since you are the one after all that is going to be playing it.
    "Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art."
    --Leonardo DaVinci

  5. #5
    Distinguished SOTW Technician Chris Peryagh's Avatar
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    Check the intonation on these flutes as they go very sharp up top - my 674 was a quarter tone sharp in the altissimo, so as well as pulling the headjoint out by around 2mm, I moved the headjoint cork 2mm away from the embouchure hole (so it's now 19mm instead of the usual 17mm from the embouchure hole centre line).

    Now it plays at 440Hz much easier than it did before, and pitching and intonation aren't a problem.

    Offset keys are better as they're more comfortable to play than inline, and have NO effect on the tone.

  6. #6
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    "pulling the headjoint out by around 2mm"

    I'm surprised. I think most people would be pulling it out a fair bit further than that - on MOST flutes. I would push my flute in this far only if I am playing in a very cold environment, or with a sharp keyboard instrument.

    "I moved the headjoint cork 2mm away from the embouchure hole "

    I think most players would find that is far enough to begin playing havoc with the tone and response, especially the 2nd octave.

    Sharpness in the high notes often has lot to do with inexperience, although I am not suggesting that is necessarily the case with you.

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    Offset G it is then. As to B foot vs. C foot my 300 series flute has the B foot and I've decided that it's more trouble than it's worth. I like having the low B but it makes the C difficult to operate as the C touch is such a tiny roller that I often hit the B touch along with it or overcompensate the other way and just hit C#. I think it's critical to be able to nail the low C every time. And if I encounter situations where low B is needed I'll still have my 361. As to open hole vs. closed hole I believe the 600 series are all open hole flutes. Possibly the holes come plugged as on my 361. Seems to me that open hole models have the advantage of being able to be either open or closed (plugged). Anyway, the model that has the features I want is the YFL-674. WWBW shows it in their catalogue for about $2400. I think this should be the ticket.

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    I'm surprised nobody mentioned the fact that many flutes are more responsive with the C foot. The difference varies from one flute to the next but is usually at least noticeable if not huge. You were already sold on the C foot so this just another potential benefit.

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    Distinguished SOTW Technician Chris Peryagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS
    I believe the 600 series are all open hole flutes. Possibly the holes come plugged as on my 361. Seems to me that open hole models have the advantage of being able to be either open or closed (plugged). Anyway, the model that has the features I want is the YFL-674.
    The 600 series are available in the following specs:

    YFL-614 - closed hole, offset G and E mech
    YFL-674 - open hole offset G, E mech
    YFL-684 - open hole, inline keys with no E mech

    Add 'H' for a B footjoint (eg. YFL-674H)

    I bought my 674 brand new and it wasn't supplied with plastic plugs, though you can always get them from flute specialists if needed.

    Even though they all have solid silver bodies, the headjoint socket is nickel silver.

  10. #10
    Distinguished SOTW Technician Chris Peryagh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon (NZ)
    "pulling the headjoint out by around 2mm"

    I'm surprised. I think most people would be pulling it out a fair bit further than that - on MOST flutes. I would push my flute in this far only if I am playing in a very cold environment, or with a sharp keyboard instrument.

    "I moved the headjoint cork 2mm away from the embouchure hole "

    I think most players would find that is far enough to begin playing havoc with the tone and response, especially the 2nd octave.

    Sharpness in the high notes often has lot to do with inexperience, although I am not suggesting that is necessarily the case with you.
    Even with the head pulled out by 3-4mm the top 8ve was still sharp in relation to the other octaves, but moving the stopper cork back by 2mm did the trick and has caused no problems with tone and response, and no loss of power - this flute has to be one of the loudest flutes I've played, even the low register can be pushed hard without splitting - I've even had Miyazawa and Sankyo players impressed with it when they tried it.

    I have an old 381H and the scale is completely different, the headjoint is also much shorter on the Type 4 scale Yamahas in comparison to the older models.

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    Chris--thanks for the info on the various models. I'm going to go with the 674. If I have trouble with the open holes I'll get them plugged. But I don't expect to have any problem. I started on clarinet (many moons ago) and am used to sealing off open holes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS
    Chris--thanks for the info on the various models. I'm going to go with the 674. If I have trouble with the open holes I'll get them plugged. But I don't expect to have any problem. I started on clarinet (many moons ago) and am used to sealing off open holes.
    Good choice. If you started on clarinet, you should adust to open holes easily. The offset G is a smart choice. Good luck with your flute.

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    Thanks, saxfreak. I definitely feel that I made the right choice. And an aside: the salesman at WWBW that took my order told me that it's looking like Conn-Selmer will be the new owner when the dust settles. And that they (WWBW) have been led to believe that there won't be any major changes. In other words, business as usual. They should know for sure in a few weeks. I've always liked dealing with WWBW. When I called today to see about the flute they had the model I wanted (YFL-674) in stock. So hopefully I'll get it early next week.

  14. #14

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    I just got a 674 with the EC headjoint from WWBW. It took about 5 weeks for it to come in, but I ordered lip plate engraving as well (total vanity item). I also got the C foot. I have a pearl 765 with the B foot and I honestly didn't feel the need to pay the bit of extra $ for the B foot for this model.

    I've noticed a big difference in the volume and projection of the 674/EC as compared to my Pearl. Good luck with the new flute!

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    Quote Originally Posted by francieme
    I just got a 674 with the EC headjoint from WWBW. It took about 5 weeks for it to come in, but I ordered lip plate engraving as well (total vanity item). I also got the C foot. I have a pearl 765 with the B foot and I honestly didn't feel the need to pay the bit of extra $ for the B foot for this model.

    I've noticed a big difference in the volume and projection of the 674/EC as compared to my Pearl. Good luck with the new flute!
    For me, the EC head is the best, unless you want to pay $1,000!!!

  16. #16
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    If you find the B foot keywork annoying, just unscrew and remove the B roller and it will feel like a C foot. Don't forget that for high C, you need the Gizmo! Really, if you are ever going to sell it, the B foot is a must in the US.

  17. #17
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    As far as offset, yes, it IS becoming more popular. I just made a run of 8 flutes and 3 were offset. Ten years ago I sold about 5% offset and now it is close to 30%. If you look at an inline flute, you can see that the 2 G keys ride on the steel that has the Bb and A. When going from high F-F#, if the G is pressed sideways at all, the Bb key will drag due to side pressure. On an Offset, this is not a problem. If I had my way, they all would be offset. I can make them half offset but it is a real job and adds several hundred to the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce bailey
    Don't forget that for high C, you need the Gizmo!
    "Need" is a strong word. I've never played a flute that wouldn't sound high C without the gizmo, though the gizmo does stabilize high C, as well as being useful in alternate fingerings of a few other notes. But how much it helps varies from one flute (and player) to the next.

    Besides, when fingering a musical passage including high C with other notes, how many times does one ever get a chance to hit the Gizmo? Often one can't because you can't slide the pinky over from the Eb key. So even when we have a gizmo we often end up having to play high C without it.

    In short I would say it's useful but not essential.

  19. #19
    Distinguished SOTW Technician Chris Peryagh's Avatar
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    Structurally the offset flute mechanism is stronger due to the LH 3 keys being mounted on their own pillars.

    On an inline flute the entire LH main action is only suspended between two points with all the mechanism on a floating steel (or a single rod screw as in Pearl flutes) with no support in the middle, so if there is slop in the points the lot can move around.

    I can't see why Pearl don't add another pillar for the LH main action on their inline flutes - they have spring pillars with no heads underneath the main action, though there's plenty of room on there for a spring pillar with a head so the rod screw can pass through it, and this is hardly going to add any more overall weight.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Peryagh
    Check the intonation on these flutes as they go very sharp up top - my 674 was a quarter tone sharp in the altissimo, so as well as pulling the headjoint out by around 2mm, I moved the headjoint cork 2mm away from the embouchure hole (so it's now 19mm instead of the usual 17mm from the embouchure hole centre line).

    Now it plays at 440Hz much easier than it did before, and pitching and intonation aren't a problem.
    How did this affect your high Bb?

    The reason I ask is because on modern (Cooper/Bennett/Devaux/etc.) scale flutes the D trill key seems to be located further down the tube than on older flutes. This helps bring the trill D down in pitch closer to a real D, but it also tends to flatten high Bb, which is already a bit on the flat side anyway. High Bb seems to be the bastard child of top register notes in pitch, since all the others tend sharp yet it tends flat.

    On my 1011, when playing high Bb softly I actually use the other (sharper) trill key and the pitch hits dead on.

    There is always the acoustically proper fingering for high Bb (funny how it's considered an "alternate" fingering!), which avoids the pitch issues, but it's a harder fingering especially in a moving line of notes.

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