Most of the discussion you see on the web about Holton saxes deals with the sax craze-era horns from the teens and twenties. You don't hear much about, nor see very often, Holtons from the late '40s. For the better part of the last year I eyeballed one that Junkdude had for sale, thinking it didn't look half bad. Finally, late in the summer I got tired of seeing it on his site so I threw down the $375 asking price and gave it a try. A couple weeks later I found another of the same model on eBay for even less. It's the model "232" alto. I think the tenor counterpart is "244" or some such. While I've yet to get either of these horns into full playing form (each needs padwork and regulation) I have to say they're built like tanks, play very smoothly, and sound HUGE! They really are comparable in all key respects to the Conn 6M and the "The Martin" Committee horns of the day. Also, at least in the case of the alto, they have right-hand bell keys, which few of the American horns had at the time. If you've gotten accustomed to that feature on modern horns, sometimes the left-hand bell keys of older American horns can get in the way. Pretty spiffy starburst engraving, too. All in all you get a lot of brass for the buck, so keep your eyes peeled. They look like this:
Can I interrupt to ask a really stoopid Q ? (you can answer or just direct me to where the answer is). How do you tell the diff between drawn and soldered holes ?
Look for a seam inside the body running around the circle where the tone hole fastens to the horn. I am unaware of any Holtons with drawn toneholes. That 1914 patent date on the Conns is for the process of drawing (pulling) the tonehole out of the brass of the horn body and I don't think it expired for many years. Soft solder is a mix of lead-tin which is easy to use.
Hard solder(in musical instruments) is high in silver, and although tricky to use, makes for a much more durable joint. Sometimes a horn can be devilish to fix, because the leak is not in a pad, but a tiny crack in the solder anchoring the tonehole to the body. An ameteur fix is to carefully fill and smooth an epoxy repair from the inside.
I'm having a slight delay on the "Modern Vintage" list: I dropped my laptop and killed the harddrive, and can't log on to SOTW at work. I finally got my hands on a public computer, but access is sporadic.
I made the same mistake on my model 214. The numbers are so tiny that the 1 looked like a 4, so I initially called it a 244. One needs a magnifying glass to read the numbers. I've never seen a horn with such tiny numbers. Double D'oh!
A very interesting Holton "Ideal" model just sold on ebay. It is model #465 with a high F# key! (I suspect someone on this board bought it.) The serial number is 122397. I'll post photos later.
I saw that one. Maybe an alto version of the 475 tenor (which I've never seen)? It had LH bell keys, and a RH cluster unlike the 230 series altos. :?
edit: also a pearl F# trill (unlike my 232s)
earlier than my 232 sn's too (265 sn: 122397)
Also, the neck octave key is the "old style", not the fancy double arm style like the Stratodynes, 230 series altos, and late 241s
Lastly, what's with the odd neck tenon by the cork?
A very interesting Holton "Ideal" model just sold on ebay. It is model #465 with a high F# key! (I suspect someone on this board bought it.) The serial number is 122397. I'll post photos later.
....I'll tell you about it...when it arrives. :shock:
I figured the serial places it in the mid-30's and my Revelation is from then, and I love it. Also noticed the add'l keys and key treatments, so am figuring it may have been a first-line model....(?)
...if anyone turns up anything on 'em, please post it either here or on my "265" thread.
Also, I compared pics of an "early" 241 tenor (around 182XXX I believe) and a "late" 241. They have different necks (the single prong soldered to a loop octave key vs. the fancier double prong key), and different LH pinky clusters among other things. I'll post pics later!
The last one that sold on open auction actually fetched good $$...over $600, if I recall. Well, not 'good' $....but significantly better than the $250-400 range they were going for back in February...
Hey...I wonder if our Secret Corner of the Forum here has been referenced enough that folks are beginning to smarten up as to the true worth of vintage Holtons ...????
I have seen that collar on the Holton neck before. It is for the Rudy model sliding mouthpiece gadget. It acts as a stop, as the early Rudys lacked this and the mouthpiece could be forced up too far, causing a wedged situation. I find it odd that Holton would resurrect the Rudy feature a few years later, so maybe the same piece was used only to re-inforce the neck, without the sliding cylider. My #214 tenor (1939) has an extra neck brace, so Holton was obviously concerned about "neck pull down". Perhaps their engineering department had hired an early Yoga instructor.
(similar to the post on Holton Serial number registry, but probably better here):
Interesting info from an expired craigslist ad that came up during a search:
1960 Holton Baritone Bari Sax Elkhorn WI - Great shape bari sax. It has been repadded and relaquered about 5 years ago. I don't know the exact model but it's stamped 272 above the 336xxx serial ...
minneapolis.craigslist.org/msg/825264140.html
If accurate, then 274 Baris were made earlier (and contemporaries to 241 and 243 tenors), and at this this 272 Bari would be a contemporary to 566 altos and 577 tenors (late Collegiates). I'm not sure if a non-Collegiate was still being made at this point--the only Holtons I've seen or heard of above 300XXX sn are the 566/577s, other than this Bari.
This horn was being sold by a SOTW member on our board, with pics!
More info for upcoming "Modern" Vintage Holton s/n list and info I'm assembling:
Only info I can find on "240" tenors, cut and pasted from defunct craigslist ad and older SOTW post, respectively:
1940 Holton Tenor Sax - ... This sax is in need of some TLC. High and mid notes play easy. ... Name and decoration lightly etched on the bell: Holton 240 Elkhorn, Wis USA serial # 135xxx, ...
boston.en.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/1251511131.html
I have a Holton 240 Tenor Sax
The serial number is 145583
I got it used back in about 1965
(SOTW member KBSaxman, St Charles, IL)
Well ...was that YOU who outbid me on that old silverplate Bari a few weeks ago ? Seller mentioned the winning bidder was in Germany, which is why I was wonderin'.....
actually, there's the 465 right there in my avatar...pretty weird pic, eh ? I was trying to get a clean image of the engraving, and figured maybe if I put the bell close to the scanner glass it would work...but it didn't...but it made this really cool, painterly looking image.
The scanner pic had me laughing! I would have never guessed that.
Anyway, nope--not me on the Bari. I want one, but not until I move back to the States--I've got too much stuff to worry about hauling (or mailing) a Bari. Moving my tenors causes me enough pain.
I just rehabbed a pair of those, a '59 and a '65. They are solid horns....lacking the bottom spread of their first-line series horns, but they have a lotta punch and are very well-built; when the action is adjusted well, they are very nice old players....
Just to add another post to this marathon thread, I managed to pick up a Holton Collegiate 566 alto on eBay this morning and in the photos it looks nearly the same as the one that got me from my ninth birthday into my third year with the US Navy, i.e., 10 years of enjoyable playing.
Yes, I have these two, and while they are similar in many ways (even the parts are interchangeable) the body and key design aren't identical...the older one is a bit 'finer' in construction and action than the newer one is....also, oddly, the neck collar/tenon diameter is larger on the later horn....
I don't have it yet. It should arrive in about two to three days since the seller and I are both in California. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work out that way and stuff happens.
No, don't change it...it's awesome....I can cut it out and paste it to the back of my horn...
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