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  1. #41

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    I really like the sound that I get out of my Z. I originally tried it at WWBW along with a Selmer serie III, and I've gotta say that I thought that the Z had a much richer, and darker tone. Although a very tempting aspect of the serie III was its amazingly smooth action... it felt really great.
    btw Razzy, as much as you try and say you are simply supporting your personal opinion that you think Selmers are better you seem think that selmer is the end all be all of saxophones and that it is understood by the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razzy
    Some of us are "spoiled" by Selmer mark VI's. Yamaha is unfairly compared to Selmer, moreso than is any other brand.
    not trying to start flame wars, just pointing this out.

  2. #42
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    Steve P; Thanks for your input-it was very informative and helpful. Like I said that's what a sax dealer told me(about Phil's 110,000). I never looked into it further.

  3. #43
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    Not trying to start a flame war about Selmer vs. Yamaha...but I've never found a Mark VI that I've liked. I'm just no good with vintage horns. Does that mean that all Mark VIs are bad? No! They're great horns...just not for me.

    Are there horns that no one should consider? Yes. But I doubt that you'll ever find a post-Balanced Action Selmer or Yamaha that fits that description.

    And before anyone goes and says "Well, you just haven't found the right VI..." that's like telling a gay guy that he "Just hasn't found the right girl yet."
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-675, Selmer Concept, Winslow Lig,Hemke 3.5
    Keilwerth Buffet Expression Alto, Selmer Concept,Winslow Lig, Hemke 3.5
    Keilwerth SX90 tenor, customized S80 C*, Winslow lig, Hemke 3.5
    Wildcard saxophone: Buffet S1 tenor

  4. #44
    Distinguished SOTW Columnist / Forum Contributor 2008 Hurling Frootmig's Avatar
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    I generally believe that if you like the Z you'll like a VI and vice-versa. It all depends on what in the end flips your switch.
    "We'd all play like Stan (Getz) if we could" - John Coltrane

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    The Woodwind Forum

  5. #45
    Distinguished SOTW Member Razzy's Avatar
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    First note that spoiled is in quotes. I mean that I had such unlimited access to a certain kind of horn which I found to be of very high quality, that these days I compare everything to that, and it all comes up short (for me) because FOR ME the Mark VI plays better. Obviously many other players would not considered this being "spoiled" at all, if their preference was for another brand.

    I was pointing out that Yamaha is often compared to Selmer, moreso than any other brand, rather unfairly because it's often to suggest that a student or otherwise horn shopper is led to think that one is better than the other by more experienced players.

    Most of my comments about "Phil woods syndrome" and the like are meant in jest. Let's have a little fun on this forum, eh?!

    I acknowledged that the custom Z is one of my favorite horns, second only to my own VI, and also stated that ALL OF MY OTHER SAXOPHONES ARE YAMAHAS, and so is my flute. This is mostly by choice and partly by necessity (e.g. that is what was available to me at the time and what I could afford, but I also feel that I can achieve a sound that I like on the those horns).

    So I wonder how much more you could expect from a guy who really likes Selmers... I'm already the biggest turncoat among my crowd <<< JOKE. Jokey joke joke, jest, ok??
    My quintet album - Released June 2013. Please enjoy.
    Glenn Miller Orchestra - See when we're near you and come on out to a show! Ask me about comp tickets.
    Mike Lorenz - a great musician who I collaborate with often. He also produced my album.

  6. #46
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    Look, just do yourselves all a favor, get a Martin, and world peace will prevail. End of story.

    Saxaholic

  7. #47
    Distinguished SOTW Member Razzy's Avatar
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    JMax, LOL! Like that buddy of mine who now plays the Z, he had a balanced action and later a VI, and they never felt right to him. His conclusion is that he's "not a Selmer guy", but I played the BA and it was a pretty ****-poor horn as far as BA's go, but never tried the VI. In the end the Z fit his bill. Who knows if that VI was a dud, too, or if Yamaha is just "for him". If I had only that BA and that Z to go on, I'd probably consider myself a Yamaha guy too!! Luckily I found a great VI and got it totally restored and set up to my specifications, and was able to discover that this is really the horn for me. I consider myself lucky!

    also a good test of whether a horn is right for you is if it works out in gigging situations. Sometimes something is great in the practice room (e.g. the sparks in Ollivander's shop! it's a shame what happened to that poor guy, who's going to make the wands now?! anyway...) but then on the gig it doesn't fit the bill (Ron's cruddy wand when it breaks... not quite the same thing but it's all I could come up with to complete this analogy). That's what happened with my old 62 alto. I really learned how to play that horn but I couldn't get what I wanted out of it. My 62 tenor however is a very nice horn. So's the 62 bari, the 62R soprano, and the 561 flute... all great horns! The only ones I'd consider replacing with selmers are the tenor and the soprano, as I have played what I consider finer examples of both in Selmer form. But also finer examples of both from Yamaha, too. I've played other Yamaha flutes that are finer examples than mine but mine is nearly as good and it's not worth thousands of dollars to me to look for something a little bit better.

    So I'd say that though my SOUND preference is for Selmer... I can make just about any horn work for me as long as it's a good example, and Yamaha rarely comes up short here. Still that's only half the battle: I can make it work but does it work for ME? Is it a good fit, is it letting me do my absolute best? There's always something else out there to try, and in the end we all "settle" on one thing or another. I settled on the 62 alto for a while but then decided I needed something more to my liking, and discovered the wonderful world of Selmer! And my friend is an example of somebody doing the opposite. But for me the VI sends up the sparks, ya know??
    My quintet album - Released June 2013. Please enjoy.
    Glenn Miller Orchestra - See when we're near you and come on out to a show! Ask me about comp tickets.
    Mike Lorenz - a great musician who I collaborate with often. He also produced my album.

  8. #48
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    I've owned a couple of Selmers...I had a Mark VII tenor and an SA-80 Soprano-I didn't like either one. I also tried a bunch of Mark VIs before I got my Keilwerth. The Serie II never floated my boat either...ww had one when I was in high school, and I always found it dark and stuffy. The Yamahas were just lighter and more focused sounding for me.
    Current setups:
    Yamaha YSS-675, Selmer Concept, Winslow Lig,Hemke 3.5
    Keilwerth Buffet Expression Alto, Selmer Concept,Winslow Lig, Hemke 3.5
    Keilwerth SX90 tenor, customized S80 C*, Winslow lig, Hemke 3.5
    Wildcard saxophone: Buffet S1 tenor

  9. #49
    Forum Contributor 2010 & Distinguished SOTW Member qwerty's Avatar
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    Look, just do yourselves all a favor, get a Martin, and world peace will prevail. End of story.

    Saxaholic
    No. no no.... get a Conn Transitional and world peace will prevail!

    I have been a Selmer Mark VI player for 31 years. This past year I came into a sweet Conn Transitional alto. While the tranny doesn't do it for me in the classical department (maybe I just haven't found the right mouthpiece match here yet), when I've got a show or big band gig, the Mark VI stays at home. The tranny is soooo rich, smooth and ballsy. Ballsy is never a word I thought of when I have played a Yamaha alto.....

    While I have been a fan of the Yamaha sopranos (I own one), tenors baritones, the altos always leave me a bit flat (I have'nt tried a Z, however).

    --Steve


    Steve
    Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid. -- F.Z.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurling Frootmig
    I generally believe that if you like the Z you'll like a VI and vice-versa. It all depends on what in the end flips your switch.
    There could be something to that. I don't know why, but I love VI altos (the good ones, of course) but not the tenors. I mentioned that I had a Z tenor and was just never comfortable with the sound but that a colleague of mine really dug my sound and when he played my Z he sounded great. He plays VI's.

    (and I was playing my Z between owning a Conn 10M and a JK). Actually, I wish I did like the Z better because I loved the way it felt, ergonomically, when I played it.
    ____________________________________________________
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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Razzy
    also a good test of whether a horn is right for you is if it works out in gigging situations. Sometimes something is great in the practice room.... but then on the gig it doesn't fit the bill ...... That's what happened with my old 62 alto. I really learned how to play that horn but I couldn't get what I wanted out of it.
    This is exactly what my experience was that first lead me down the path to severe GAS. I had been playing a YAS61 alto for about 12 years since upgrading to it in high school. Served me well all through college and beyond.

    About 2 or 3 years ago I was playing alto in a worship/jazz combo-type group at a church where I was the lead/solo voice. The horns were not mic'd, but we had an electric bass, an electric keyboard, and the drum set was in one of those plexi-glass surroundings and was mic'd. Kinduva strange set-up, but we made the most with what we had.

    Our director was an alto player who spent his career in Airforce jazz bands. Right from the beginning, I was having a problem being heard with my YAS61 and my Meyer 5. The director kept saying, "Man, your sound isn't even making it off the stage." The next rehearsal I showed up with a Yani metal 7. It did help in terms of brightness and cut, but the projection was still not there. So the director and I started experimenting with me standing on stage playing long tones as loud as I possibly could. Then I tried his Mark VI, and he tried my 61. We went back and forth between horns with various mouthpieces and we had people out at various places in the sanctuary to give us feedback on how the sound was coming across.

    Well, at the end of this experiment we concluded that with his Mark VI we could push the sound as hard as possible, and the more we pushed, the more the tone opened up and filled the huge room. But with my 61, the more we pushed, the more the tone thinned out and seemed to resist. Obviously the result of this experiment doesn't mean that ALL yamahas sound thin, and ALL selmers sound richer and better. Every horn is different. But this experience did lead me to search for a new alto, and I eventually settled on a Ref 54 (very full and open tone, no problem projecting to the back of any room).

  12. #52
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    I'm a Selmer guy. Have been since the 8th grade when I bought my first VI tenor with lawn mowing money. But I've always played Yamaha Sopranos - Even after an extensive soprano search over the last year - I ended up back on a Yamaha. Does that make me a bad person? Should I seek therapy? I hope my wife never learns my dark secret.

    If I ever bothered to buy a bari it would be a YBS-52!!! Without question.

    Play what you want and enjoy. If anyone sounds boring - the horn isn't to blame. That's like a carpenter blaming the hammer when the house falls down.

  13. #53
    Forum Contributor 2007 fballatore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxaholic
    Look, just do yourselves all a favor, get a Martin, and world peace will prevail. End of story.

    Saxaholic
    Don't you mean a The Martin?
    "You can play a shoestring if you're sincere." - John Coltrane

    "If you can't play in time and in tune the rest doesn't matter." - Keith Ridenhour

  14. #54
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    Sweetsax brings up a good point. You can't judge how a horn projects when you're playing it. You have to get some distance away to tell. A horn that sounds and feels like a live wire in your hands might have a sound that peters out ten feet from the bell. And a horn that sounds a little subdued and not particularly powerful may have a sound that carries to the back of the room. Selmers have always seemed to me to have very good projection.

  15. #55

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    Projection is 99% dependent on how air is pushed into the horn. It's not how MUCH air you push, it's HOW you push it. This is what separates the men from the boys.
    Over the Rainbow (my YouTube debut), The Star-Spangled Banner, Tennessee Waltz, Fields of Gold

    A horn is only as good as the person playing it. -- BJK

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by jentone
    If anyone sounds boring - the horn isn't to blame. That's like a carpenter blaming the hammer when the house falls down.
    jentone, if a carpenter uses a $700 NASA-certified hammer, no house he builds will ever fall down.

    So buy the most expensive horn there is! You'll sound like Trane!
    Over the Rainbow (my YouTube debut), The Star-Spangled Banner, Tennessee Waltz, Fields of Gold

    A horn is only as good as the person playing it. -- BJK

  17. #57
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    Dave kozz and Nelson Rangell actually do sound boring (downright irritating even) to me . There, I said it. But, It's still all about personal choice. You have to play what YOU like and make sure you don't bore yourself.

  18. #58

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    Yamaha horns are missing the same two items as my neutered golden retriever. Just my $.02.
    www.thomkeith.com ** e-mail ** Listen * * Try your luck at a Blindfold Test

  19. #59

    Default yamaha sound

    I've been playing a 62 for almost 4 or 5 years not. I've had no problems with it. When I play side by side with a kenny garrett cd, i feel that my horn can make some of the same sounds as his. The sound of the 62 is mellow. It doesn't have alot of edge, but it can burn through passages and leave your listener on edge. I don't think I'll ever switch horns. Another this I loved about it was the long key protector that extends over the B, Bb and C keys (this is no longer found on new 62's). I thought that was an absolute gorgeous thing on the horn, and the engraving is great to. Love your horn and your horn will love you back. I think the YAS-62 is my horn for life unless it gets stolen or broken.

    Honestly, I believe that the horn makes up maybe 5% of the equation, maybe even less. The most important thing is that YOU feel good about your horn, so if you like selmer go with it. I've wanted a sixty since I was a kid. I dreamt of having one. My family couldn't afford. When I was in college, I got a couple thousand in schoarship money and bought the 62. It was like a dream come true. At first, i didn't feel like there was a difference between it and my silver jupiter, but now that I've found the right reed and went back to my Meyer 5 mouth piece, man it sounds sweet.

    If you a good player, it doesn't matter what horn you'll have. You'll tear it up.

  20. #60

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    i play on a YTS-82ZUL and i am plenty happy with it.

    the ergonomics are great and the sound is nice too. i won't go so far as to qualify it as having an amazing sound because as much as i like it, sound is far too subjective a topic and i don't wanna invite any debates.

    that said, i did pick it after trying out other horns including a selmer serie 3 and keilwerth SX-90R. it just felt the best to me in terms of feel, response and tone. i also had my teacher play on the horns while i listened and to be perfectly honest, the YTS-82ZUL just sounded sweeter, albeit not as loud and powerful as the serie 3.

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