Another "P" Convert!

[Mark R]

I just received my P. Mauriat 66R Tenor sax yesterday courtesy of Dave Hoskins at Junkdude.com. The horn played fairly decent straight out of the case but felt to me kinda dark, quiet and I was struggling with the low Bb. Took the horn to my tech today. He had to do some adjusting/regulating in addition to having to move the low C key, replace that pad and also reseat the palm key D pad. He also had to loosen the bell brace and get the bell/bodytube in line so that the bell keys were lined up. These are not uncommon things needed when a horn has been shipped.

Once he got all that happening. VaVaVoom this kitty was purring and this lion was roaring! I am as picky as they come when it comes to horns. I am a certified vintage horn snob. I actually had lots of reservations when I got this horn. I had tried the Nickel Silver model and it felt sterile , I was not all that impressed with it. Hey, different strokes different folks.

So Dave suggested I try the Custom Class 66 models before counting P. Mauriat out, told me they are a very different sounding instrument. Was he ever right. After this horn was tweaked I can play anywhere on the horn and there is a great tone core regardless of whether I am playing altissimo, low, mid range. Throughout the entire natural (and unnatural ) ranges this horn performs with finesse and little effort. Just the right amount of resistance too. I am very impressed with both the 66R and Dave's service and advice. This horn is a true joy to play.



These are an outstanding instrument. Best sounding brand new horn I think I have ever played. I am elated, this P. Mauriat is the best of both worlds offering great design, ergonomics, intonation yet giving a great well seasoned sound and tone core. Very powerful without being bright, harsh or shrill. It is like a cross between a MKVI and a great old Conn.

[Russ]

Hi Mark.

I have been very interested in checking out the PM range, but alas, they are rare in the UK at present.

I am pleased you like your new horn, but I am struggling to decide - With the work you had done to a new horn, is this a good review, or a bad one ?

Please, I'm not being picky or awkward as I have never played, let alone owned a PM. However, I have played and owned many many other makes, so replacing pads on a new horn and adjusting the bell brace? Not on !!

I really am genuinely pleased you are happy, but if I purchased a new horn and I had this work done, I wouldn't be very happy

[BigZ]

Congrats Mark! I'm glad you like it. I was wondering if you got one yet. Mine needed a little work too, but I'm very satisfied. Enjoy!

[Jbroad572]

Hi Mark.

I have been very interested in checking out the PM range, but alas, they are rare in the UK at present.

I am pleased you like your new horn, but I am struggling to decide - With the work you had done to a new horn, is this a good review, or a bad one ?

Please, I'm not being picky or awkward as I have never played, let alone owned a PM. However, I have played and owned many many other makes, so replacing pads on a new horn and adjusting the bell brace? Not on !!

I really am genuinely pleased you are happy, but if I purchased a new horn and I had this work done, I wouldn't be very happy

Keep in mind any horn you buy brand new that has never been setup is going to probably need some work done. It's rare to find a horn in perfect condition after shipping and straight out the box. I think you should have each new horn that has been shipped at least checked by a tech, whether it be an old MArk VI, Yamaha, or Selmer 54. Then you can have an honest evaluation of the horn and hear and feel how it really plays.

[Mark R]

Russ, Sometimes when I've received a horn it plays like a dream right out of the case. However, most times especially if the horn was first shipped from Taiwan to USA, then the distributor in USA to the dealer , then from the dealer to buyer I have found all that vibration usually means you can expect to have the need for some adjustment. Reason the pad was replaced was not due to wear. It is because the pad was not seated correctly on the horn. As inexpensive as pads are my tech (me too) decided it would be easier to use the original resonator and seat an new pad instead of trying to work one around that already had a fairly deep indentation due to my insisting that the seller use key clamps. Also if you had any idea just how much tumbling your package goes through between your buying the horn and it arriving it is not uncommon that something like an adjustment on key heights and the bell brace or not uncommon.

It is not really a reflection on the quality of the horn rather a result of what it takes to get the instrument in optimum playing condition after all that traveling. In the past I have received Yanagisawa, Selmer, Keilwerth and King horns with similar issues so it isn't due to faulty manufacturing on P. Mauriats part. It will be quite some time before it bears out whether the quality of the P. Mauriats have as high a standard as the "Big 4". That is part of the risk I am willing to take ...and glad I took now that I have this horn. It is a solid, heavy , well constructed instrument as far as I can see from playing it thus far.

[GAS_Wyo]

I just couldn't wait to get to a computer to write about my experience yesterday! I live only 5 hours from Ft. Collins, CO, the "home" of Sax Alley. I came down to go through every store in the Denver area to find 'the' sax for me. I made an appointment with Tim Glesman at Sax Alley for 'Thursday or Friday afternoon'. I was so excited that I couldn't sleep on Thursday night (keep in mind, I'm 45 years old).

I stepped into Tim's shop and tried out nearly every tenor in the shop. Tried 3 different PM's, Series III, Ref 54 (with problems below the low C). I had tested an 875 Custom for a few days the week before. I like a dark, full tenor sound with a lot of character. The way I figure it, if I get a dark sounding instrument I can always brighten it up with different mouthpieces.

I'm a novice, so I asked Tim's opinions on sound throughout the 2 1/2 hour session while he continued working on a Vito to get it into playing shape. Tim likes a dark sound...that's the reason I tried out the 875 (Yamaha's darkest horn IMO).

CUTTING TO THE CHASE...I absolutely LOVED the PMXT-66R! This horn played very well out of the box. Exactly the sound I was looking to make. To me the rolled tone holes make a big difference. Big, full sound, warm, free blowing...this horn and my George Bundy mpc make beautiful music together!

I set the horn aside (thinking "ka-ching!!!") and asked what he thought of the quality of the 67 alto. He said the more recent models have really improved. He had one so I went out to the truck to get my Series II, mpc, etc. My horn was dark (IMO) compared to the other alto's I've played. It responded pretty well, but wasn't perfect. I picked up the PMXA-67R and was JUST BLOWN AWAY!!! This is THE darkest, fullest (I don't even know more adjectives) alto I've ever played.

Keep in mind I've been playing with a guy for the last 2 years who has "The Martin" alto. His is not just any horn. He's from Elkhart, IN, and his Grandfather worked in the Martin factory making horns. My buddy got a summer job at the factory play testing horns under his grandfather's tuteledge in the late 60's. HIS horn was a gift from Granddad...A custom engraved, gold and silver plated custom "The Martin". The sweetest alto I'd ever heard before this one.

CUTTING TO THE CHASE AGAIN...I ordered both horns!!! Now, when I say I ordered them, Tim does a pro set up (pad treatment, oiling, adjustment of the action, everything) before he let's a new horn go out the door. I will come back down to Ft. Collins (Windsor) when the horns are ready. Probably about 2 weeks.

I'm elated! A dream come true. You couldn't find any tech with better skills than Tim, he's one of the nicest guys I've ever met, but HE'S BUSY!

If you're not convinced that a horn made in Taiwan can be Fantastic, you haven't heard one of THESE. Yes, I'm a convert...especially at these prices for excellent quality...AMEN!

Greg Smith

[xuanvu]

Hi Greg,
I was just answered your PM message and then read this post You and I both have similiar experience with the P. Mauriat horns I don't play tenor but the alto is really good. When I was at Tim's place, he doesn't have the 67R in stock, but the regular version plays really good too...

Kenny.

[Daktion]

Mark.... always glad to see another convert These horns are really really great.... for anyone one who goes for sound over brand name, the P. is definately an option

and Greg... glad to see you went and tried out the P. Even more cool that you went ahead and ordered both the R 66 and 67 hehe I'm saving my pennies and hopefully I'll get a 66R to go with my 67R as well

I wonder if anyone else had the same response as I when I first tried the R. Scaling down the notes it just gets richer, darker, deeper....my reaction; suprise, shock, then pure love.

[Jbroad572]

I just couldn't wait to get to a computer to write about my experience yesterday! I live only 5 hours from Ft. Collins, CO, the "home" of Sax Alley. I came down to go through every store in the Denver area to find 'the' sax for me. I made an appointment with Tim Glesman at Sax Alley for 'Thursday or Friday afternoon'. I was so excited that I couldn't sleep on Thursday night (keep in mind, I'm 45 years old).

I stepped into Tim's shop and tried out nearly every tenor in the shop. Tried 3 different PM's, Series III, Ref 54 (with problems below the low C). I had tested an 875 Custom for a few days the week before. I like a dark, full tenor sound with a lot of character. The way I figure it, if I get a dark sounding instrument I can always brighten it up with different mouthpieces.

I'm a novice, so I asked Tim's opinions on sound throughout the 2 1/2 hour session while he continued working on a Vito to get it into playing shape. Tim likes a dark sound...that's the reason I tried out the 875 (Yamaha's darkest horn IMO).

CUTTING TO THE CHASE...I absolutely LOVED the PMXT-66R! This horn played very well out of the box. Exactly the sound I was looking to make. To me the rolled tone holes make a big difference. Big, full sound, warm, free blowing...this horn and my George Bundy mpc make beautiful music together!

I set the horn aside (thinking "ka-ching!!!") and asked what he thought of the quality of the 67 alto. He said the more recent models have really improved. He had one so I went out to the truck to get my Series II, mpc, etc. My horn was dark (IMO) compared to the other alto's I've played. It responded pretty well, but wasn't perfect. I picked up the PMXA-67R and was JUST BLOWN AWAY!!! This is THE darkest, fullest (I don't even know more adjectives) alto I've ever played.

Keep in mind I've been playing with a guy for the last 2 years who has "The Martin" alto. His is not just any horn. He's from Elkhart, IN, and his Grandfather worked in the Martin factory making horns. My buddy got a summer job at the factory play testing horns under his grandfather's tuteledge in the late 60's. HIS horn was a gift from Granddad...A custom engraved, gold and silver plated custom "The Martin". The sweetest alto I'd ever heard before this one.

CUTTING TO THE CHASE AGAIN...I ordered both horns!!! Now, when I say I ordered them, Tim does a pro set up (pad treatment, oiling, adjustment of the action, everything) before he let's a new horn go out the door. I will come back down to Ft. Collins (Windsor) when the horns are ready. Probably about 2 weeks.

I'm elated! A dream come true. You couldn't find any tech with better skills than Tim, he's one of the nicest guys I've ever met, but HE'S BUSY!

If you're not convinced that a horn made in Taiwan can be Fantastic, you haven't heard one of THESE. Yes, I'm a convert...especially at these prices for excellent quality...AMEN!

Greg Smith

Yes yes, these are great horns. Just out of curiousity, what did you think of the PM vs. the Ref 54?

[BigDaddyJ]

I think the 66R plays better than any Ref 54 I've tried (about 10 or so). The best Ref 54 I've tried didn't have the vintage finish. This is probably the best modern Selmer I've ever tried. Regardless of price, I felt my 66R played and SOUNDED better than the 54.

later

Joel

[Giganova]

You guys make me think if I should try out the 66R since I love dark tenor horns.
The only doubt that I have is: its made in Taiwan! To be honest, I've never seen any quality product coming out of Taiwan.

[thehighend]

The Taiwanese have some of the highest-quality manufacturing sites in the world. Not only electronics (e.g., televisions, both plasma and LCD), but other products as well (e.g., most carbon fiber bike frames, and many other related high-tech parts). If they aren't matching the French on saxophone quality yet, it's not because they can't---it will happen, if saxophone-making becomes anywhere near a high-priority in Taiwan. Fortunately for Selmer, there isn't big money in making professional saxophones, or I don't doubt that the French wouldn't be able to keep up.

There is a reason that more of us are driving cars by Toyota and Honda than Peugeot and Citroen. I wouldn't be surprised if a Taiwanese company rises to the prominence of Yamaha and Yanagisawa---two companies that definitely meet the quality of the European makers.

[Giganova]

There is a reason that more of us are driving cars by Toyota and Honda than Peugeot and Citroen.

Agreed, but Toyota and Honda are Japanese cars, not Taiwanese

[thehighend]

Yes, I was aware... hence the ensuing sentence which you omitted from your Quote string.

[Giganova]

I guess it all boils down to how the horns actually sound. So far I have only heard great things about the P. Mauriat horns. Will try to find a dealer in my area to test play one.

[Chris S]

You might be interested in reading a book called 'Running Money'. While it's not entirely about this, I'll give you a brief synopsis of the information pertinent to Asian manufacturers.

Basically, the US runs a HUGE trade deficit, somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-400 million. Is it because we are exporting less than we import?

Well, yes and no.

See, the US is no longer an 'industiral' society. We are post-industrial revolution. We've moved to an 'intellectual property' economy, where ideas are worth more than labor. The big reason that we run such a huge defecit is the very device that I'm using to write this. That's right, computers. More specifically... the components in them. See, what a large majority of the guys in Silicon Valley do is pay a bunch of engineers to come up with a blueprint for a chip (or processor, or (insert other component here)). Then, they email that blueprint over to Japan or Taiwan or China or (other country that is still undergoing an industrial revolution). 'Country' makes the chips for the US company, because labor is cheaper. When the chips are done, they get shipped back into the US. So... we haven't exported anything, however we're importing all these chips and things, and those are priced... the idea that we email out isn't.

From what I understand, this is how the P's work also. They aren't designed in Taiwan. That's the key. With the way things are automated these days, doesn't really matter where it's made, as long as it's supervised well. I'm sure that the PM people have a rep at the factory that makes the horns, furthermore I'm sure that they have some kind of quality control in place. The reason that they're so cheap is because of the cheap labor. Sure, complain all you want about the poor people in (Asian country), and how they should get paid on a scale of what it would cost in the US... but when you're willing to pay a LOT more for your TV/computer/P Mauriat... then we can talk. If these horns were made in the US... you can bet your butt that they'd be priced similarly to Selmers.

Anywho... off my soap box...

Chris S

[Giganova]

I am not quite sure what the P. Mauriat company actually is: French name but obviously founded in the US just a few years ago, the horns are manufactured from French brass in Taiwan but on the bell of the horns it says "New York London France". Where do the "New York, London & France" come from? Just a marketing gimick? How old is that company? I'd be happy if someone could shed light on the history of this company!

[Giganova]

If these horns were made in the US... you can bet your butt that they'd be priced similarly to Selmers.

I am aware of this. Its just that especially some of the European brands have a loooong history in instrument design & manufacturing -- including their employees, because most of an instrument is hand assembled. It would give me a better feeling to buy a saxophone -- which is an awefully complicated instrument and supposed to last for a few decades -- from a company with long tradition and experience in building horns.

However, since I only hear great things from the P. Mauriat, I am curious and are looking into test-playing (hard to find a store who has them, though) and maybe buying one.

[Razzy]

I am not quite sure what the P. Mauriat company actually is: French name but obviously founded in the US just a few years ago, the horns are manufactured from French brass in Taiwan but on the bell of the horns it says "New York London France". Where do the "New York, London & France" come from? Just a marketing gimick? How old is that company? I'd be happy if someone could shed light on the history of this company!

It's all rather suspicious isn't it? That's why I'm eager to try them out. If they play up a storm like everybody says, then I don't care about the American who founded a company under a French Name and has the horns made in Taiwan using French brass!

[Jbroad572]

I think the reviews and opinions should very well speak for themselves. I've yet to read one bad review on the horn. Of course you have to take all the reviews and opinions with a grain of salt, but I mean the reputation is great so far. A number of techs have confirmed the quality of the metal and the build. Of course we don't know about them standing the test of time, but I really don't think there will be a problem. Try one out if you can.