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So, I heard some music last night and ......

6K views 67 replies 34 participants last post by  Keith Ridenhour 
#1 ·
last night, after picking up my "new" Buescher Aristocrat tenor, I needed to get some dinner. I stopped at a local place I rarely go to and, as it was Saturday night, there was a trio playing standards to, welll, me and two other people.

Here's what occurred to me as I ate at the bar: these three guys ( drums, electric bass and guitar) were all very good players, emphasis on "very". They played the old warhorses like Stella, Nardis, Someday My prince, Sandu, and a bevy more.
They were very aware of dynamics, too. There was not a false note or a bad one. They were all in their late 30s, to mid 40s, I think.

And it was almost unlistenable for me after 3 tunes.

I wondered, as I drove up the mountain home, if these guys would like what they played if they heard it played back to them. I mean, they obviously were inspired by all the great players and recordings, none of which sounded like this endless line of leading tones they were playing. There was zero tension, almost zero space and, although they seemed to be enjoying themselves, no joy or elan in the music. And certainly, no surprises at all.

I don't mean no surprises for me, as a player. I mean, no place for me as a listener to participate.

The guitaroist had a gorgeous tone and touch and could play anything and everything easily. The electric bassist had a beautiful tone and touch as well, and played a kind of "lead bass" throughout the set I heard. The drummer, who I think had a hard job to try to be creative and also be a bit afraid to hit the drums because of the confined space and the boomy room, played well. He played very nicely throughout


I didn't know these fellows at all, so this was all fresh to me.

I came away wondering if they were trying to sound that way because that's how they want the music to sound, or if they just had taken this path so many times it was easy to "phone it in" in terms of ensemble music. They are not a steady trio but rather an "I've got a gig" band, I'm pretty sure.

But listening to those tunes, I was a bit disheartened by how ordinary and the same they made them sound, with all that talent at their disposal. They didn't seem to be ready to work.

The food was good, the wine better.:|
 
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#51 ·
Restaurant Jazz Joe. it sucks! I had a gig for 19 years every Thursday but I was told you are background. I would punch the clock for a steady $200.00 for me. /$800.00 a month play soft calm and uninspired. Beats swinging a hammer. Maybe the same for these guys.. Hudson Valley.. Not a jazz area really. Working class folks. But hey we still can enjoy the Falcon. Thats an awesome place.. I still remember you from the terrace lounge in Newburgh . You play your *** off the real deal! QUOTE=Joe Giardullo;2608259]last night, after picking up my "new" Buescher Aristocrat tenor, I needed to get some dinner. I stopped at a local place I rarely go to and, as it was Saturday night, there was a trio playing standards to, welll, me and two other people.

Here's what occurred to me as I ate at the bar: these three guys ( drums, electric bass and guitar) were all very good players, emphasis on "very". They played the old warhorses like Stella, Nardis, Someday My prince, Sandu, and a bevy more.
They were very aware of dynamics, too. There was not a false note or a bad one. They were all in their late 30s, to mid 40s, I think.

And it was almost unlistenable for me after 3 tunes.

I wondered, as I drove up the mountain home, if these guys would like what they played if they heard it played back to them. I mean, they obviously were inspired by all the great players and recordings, none of which sounded like this endless line of leading tones they were playing. There was zero tension, almost zero space and, although they seemed to be enjoying themselves, no joy or elan in the music. And certainly, no surprises at all.

I don't mean no surprises for me, as a player. I mean, no place for me as a listener to participate.

The guitaroist had a gorgeous tone and touch and could play anything and everything easily. The electric bassist had a beautiful tone and touch as well, and played a kind of "lead bass" throughout the set I heard. The drummer, who I think had a hard job to try to be creative and also be a bit afraid to hit the drums because of the confined space and the boomy room, played well. He played very nicely throughout

I didn't know these fellows at all, so this was all fresh to me.

I came away wondering if they were trying to sound that way because that's how they want the music to sound, or if they just had taken this path so many times it was easy to "phone it in" in terms of ensemble music. They are not a steady trio but rather an "I've got a gig" band, I'm pretty sure.

But listening to those tunes, I was a bit disheartened by how ordinary and the same they made them sound, with all that talent at their disposal. They didn't seem to be ready to work.

The food was good, the wine better.:|[/QUOTE]
 
#52 ·
Maybe 2002, a blizzard and the Kalaparusha Maurice McIntyre Trio is a duo because the tuba player can't be found in the snow. Two people in the audience.
Kalaparusha and Ravish Momin played monumental music of deep and abiding substance for us. No money ( door gig) but they did what they came to do.


Solo guitar in a corner of a restaurant, playing quietly behind the conversation. I'm listening as hard as I can because he's playing real music.

******* bar, Goshen NY. !976 or 1977. Drunks at the horseshoe shaped bar, three old (OLD) black guys on a low stage and nobody paying attention. I'm out in the dead of winter trying to sit in and get hired wherever I can. The trio is trombone, drums and farfisa organ and the sound is, well, you can just imagine. But, every once in a while, a spark, a phrase that makes you sit up ( at least, it did me). It's such an odd group and I'm already there, so I ask to sit in. Long story short: trombonist all of a sudden is playing electric guitar, and he sounds like he's the first electric guitarist ever, it's so raw but musical. Who was it : Eddie Durham ( Basie, Billie Holiday, Glenn Miller arrangements) is the bone/guit, the Farfisa guy was named either Benny or Bunny Greene, and the drummer was Harold Austin ( Jonah Jones). I played the whole last set and hung with these pros who were just paying the bills, nobody listening. NOBODY, except me.

Was it The Vanguard? Of course not. But they came to play and to entertain, and they did both. I remember this night for many reasons. Eddie hooked me up with an agent in NYC that got me enough work to get through the winter.

Eddie Durham : TOPSY.
 
#54 ·
The few posts that seem to suggest that I 'expected too much" are puzzling to me. I've been there (I'm old and played every kind of gig you can imagine, although not a circus gig) and done that, and am certainly guilty of the same things I heard that night. I brought it up as a discussion topic, not a specific critique of what those specific guys choose to do or not do. For me, it was an example of something.

I've heard major pianists playing those kind of gigs and it was still musical and more than listenable. But it was solo. Same with guitarists. Solo.
But this was a trio and it was unlistenable. Not bad, just empty.

No line carried any weight or meaning or joy or style or.....

Now, I checked the promo on this specific gig. It's a MUSIC gig, not a background gig, according to the venue. The walls are covered in jazz photographs, btw. Great shots I'd never seen; original prints.

So, excuse me, but the OP was not about my expectations or standards, I don't think. I wondered about what these players would think of their own musiuc, played back to them.

Rich Maraday: The Terrace ! Long ago and far Away. But I was down that way a month ago to the Cafe Macchiato for breakfast with friends. Some things change; some things stay the same, it seems. Thanks for the kind words. :)
 
#57 ·
The few posts that seem to suggest that I 'expected too much" are puzzling to me.

For me, it was an example of something.

But this was a trio and it was unlistenable. Not bad, just empty.

No line carried any weight or meaning or joy or style or.....

Now, I checked the promo on this specific gig. It's a MUSIC gig, not a background gig, according to the venue.
Joe, I sure didn't read it that way--that you expected too much. I hear exactly what you're saying. And the fact this was an actual music gig, as opposed to background 'wallpaper,' makes it even worse. Obviously the rest of us on here didn't hear the actual music, but from what you say, I interpret it as a lack of passion (as I said earlier). I was listening to a Wayne Shorter recording the other night (The Soothsayer) and man, every note was packed with passion, grit, joy, sorrow, every emotion under the sun. Some of it probably wasn't 'perfectly' executed in a technical way, but full of heart. All the greats had that going on, an ability to pour their heart out into their instruments.

I think that's what's missing in some of the 'jazz' today. Too much emphasis on getting all the right notes, or simply running 'hip' scales like a technical exercise. Taking no chances or risks...

p.s. Enjoy that Buescher! I just took my 156 tenor out for a recording session last night on some jump blues tracks, along with my VI. Played one tune on the VI, the next on the Buescher, and the VI went back in its case. I think it'll stay there for a while. The guys in the band even noticed how much better the Buescher sounded, and they never notice when I change mpcs or anything like that, so it says something.
 
#58 ·
Every audience member comes with their expectations, background, 'baggage', taste, mood of the day, education, experience, motivation, all of it... And so does every player. Then the players have to get together and do something they prefer as a group. Then there is the environment. A bar. A restaurant. Jazz Club. A concert hall... A mall. A Pizzeria... and the management at the place who has an expectation that he/she expects to be fulfilled no matter what because 'I'm paying for this". If anything, audience taste in music has become balkanized by things like Pandora where a person can get exactly what he wants piped into his head phones without commercial , endlessly... There may be an expectation in most audiences for a 'canned' sound since probably 99% of the music experience for most audience members is with recorded music. Maybe that audience is affecting young players since they come from that audience experience. The only solution for me is to celebrate any immediate live music at any venue as a positive, be it Kenny G, Wayne Shorter, Leontyne Price, whatever. With tracks, with a DJ in the background, especially any instrumental music. If you reach one person in the audience in a deep way, you are a success. If you have a deep experience playing , you are a success. If the owner tells you you are too loud and you play louder you are a success. If you play softer you are a success. The fact that you are there is a success. Playing and getting a sophisticated response like Joe's makes the gig a success. It means someone had a deep response, even if negative, and it made him think about music and maybe changed or refined his outlook and concept. That is why live gigs are way way more important than recorded music. It's like reality vs. virtual reality. No contest.
 
#59 ·
I attended some downtown association mixer with my wife at the local community organizing bar. Sitting at a big table with folks talking about cheese shops, talking about noise ordinance, oblivious to the guy at the piano. And he's playing real good; mainly Bill Evans modal, so nothing original, but he's really into it, paying no mind to the chatter. Like Joni Mitchell's For Free. It's the music. You lose that, it don't matter.
 
#64 ·
It's easy to get caught in the trap...4 or 5 gigs a week. Long drives, longer nights, crappy pay. I'm not making excuses, just reminiscing. You put one note in front of the other for 4 hours, collect your pay and realize that without a day gig, you'll never make it...So you get a second job you probably hate, rinse and repeat. Sleep is something other people do - Relationships strain to the breaking point, and you wonder why you even bother....

...then the club owner stiffs you after waiting for an hour to get paid...

good times...
 
#66 ·
Talking about a recorded sound and a live sound. I once had the host of a private party come right up close and bending his head towards the Sop bell, and signalled he wanted to ask me something. When I stopped playing his eyes flicked in the direction of my amp, he paused then asked me something that I thought was a bit obvious at the time. Later I had the feeling he was checking if it was a recording or me playing. Anyway he gave me a £20 tip over the agency fee. So I took it as a compliment for having a good balance with the. BT,s and the Sop.
 
#68 ·
I've seen this quite a few times. I think sometimes the guys look at a small or not listening audience and decide to practice the last thing they were working on. I get sometimes tired of hearing "standards" because its like playing a song from 1950s rock and calling it relevant today? Jazz didn't stop when the real book stopped being updated. I like new songs, new approaches. When I perform I play with my eyes closed most of the time so I am not looking at the 5 people eating dinner or the 500 dancing when I play. I just play. But the OPs take is a good one to remember. this might be gig 4 in 5 nights or they might be tired but to the listener they are hearing the group for the first and maybe only time, its all a first impression. And when I'm done I'd like someone to want to hear more. I understand about the non stop non resolved tensions playing also. Thats what you hear most high school kids doing to be "hip" . Its like a movie and you never find out who killed who. Unsatisfying K
 
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