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Improving my timing

4K views 16 replies 16 participants last post by  danielstark 
#1 ·
Since staring to play again I've noticed I have trouble keeping time and playing even simple melodies of standards. I'll hold a note too long or too short or start it a little late or early etc.

I used to play the guitar. I was self taught and would play rock tunes. I mainly played rhythm guitar but could play lead melodies fine. I never had a problem with "timing" even while playing with others. It just all fell into place. It took me a few years to learn guitar but I quickly was able to get paying gigs and have played to crowds of over 500 people for 3hrs+ at a time.

With the sax, even though I played it for much longer, my timing feels much worse. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I wasn't reading 'guitar music' and on sax I'm still looking at the sheet music/ real book.

Its hard to explain but does anyone understand I'm talking about?
 
#2 ·
I completely understand- I think I'm OK on time until I hear a recording of myself- then I'm all over the place- very frustrating!
 
#4 ·
first, get the terminology correct - you really want to improve your 'time.' Don't mean to sound harsh, but musically-speaking people get this wrong continually. We mean to say 'he has good time,' not 'he has good timing.' It's not when you come in or when you stop but your use of internal time/rhythm/note placement that makes you as a player.
 
#5 ·
I think a few things might help, as it sounds like you might be having a problem with both reading and time:

1. Get away from the written page ASAP (so you can focus more on time than notes)
2. Learn to count and internalize the fundamentals of rhythm
3. Practice with a metronome and take your time working out playing a tune in time (count out passages that trip you up, slow it way down, sing it, etc.)
4. Allenlowe pointed this out: recognize that it's about developing an internal sense of time ("time feel") and not simply playing the right notes of the melody at the perfect time

This book is really great: Publication Font Book Poster Rectangle
 
#7 ·
I think a few things might help, as it sounds like you might be having a problem with both reading and time:

1. Get away from the written page ASAP (so you can focus more on time than notes)
2. Learn to count and internalize the fundamentals of rhythm
3. Practice with a metronome and take your time working out playing a tune in time (count out passages that trip you up, slow it way down, sing it, etc.)
4. Allenlowe pointed this out: recognize that it's about developing an internal sense of time ("time feel") and not simply playing the right notes of the melody at the perfect time

This book is really great: View attachment 72753
I agree- forcing myself to not read the chart is proving to be SO difficult for me- although I think it would solve SO many of my issues- time being one of many! I'm just such a reader- it's like a crutch- but the tunes I do internalize I play much more freely- and my phrases are more interesting and melodic.
 
#9 ·
use a metronome ALWAYS when practicing - and play scales and patterns very slowly at 60 to learn to concentrate on subdiving and not rushing simple rhythms and ever more complex patterns This is a good start along with other methods presented to improve timing Some players come by it very naturally some have to continually work on it.
 
#11 ·
Since staring to play again I've noticed I have trouble keeping time and playing even simple melodies of standards. I'll hold a note too long or too short or start it a little late or early etc.

I used to play the guitar. I was self taught and would play rock tunes. I mainly played rhythm guitar but could play lead melodies fine. I never had a problem with "timing" even while playing with others. It just all fell into place. It took me a few years to learn guitar but I quickly was able to get paying gigs and have played to crowds of over 500 people for 3hrs+ at a time.

With the sax, even though I played it for much longer, my timing feels much worse. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I wasn't reading 'guitar music' and on sax I'm still looking at the sheet music/ real book.

Its hard to explain but does anyone understand I'm talking about?
So how long have you been playing sax?
Reading the sheet music takes more effort than guitar tabs, it could just be that you have not yet learnt to read far enough ahead and that is why you are finding your fractionally late or holding a note as you work out the next one. Like all things the more you do the easier and more automatic things become, thus allowing your brain to concentrate on listening to the others and your timing will tighten.
take a relatively simple sax solo like baker street, learn to just play it without the need for notes and then play it with the record the more you know it the more accurate your timing will be. It will be the case for all music you know by heart.
Now do the same with something you don't know say careless whisper play it with the music whilst reading the sheet and your timing is likely to be fractionally late, the more you play it the more you recognise what is coming up and the more accurate your timing becomes.
Take that thought and apply it to all the music you play, the more you play and the wider the range of material you play the more your brain will start to recognise rhythm patterns and note progressions and the reading becomes easier. Try to aim to read two bars ahead of what you are playing it wont come easy but if you can get close to that then you will have reached another level and your timing will probably corrected itself.

Good luck

Kenny
 
#12 ·
Practice scales. Don't play with bad drummers.
I'm always convinced our music personalities are started very young and tough to fix. Put the metronome on one and three. Listen to players with good time; Stan Getz, Bird, Joe Henderson. Avoid listening to players with bad time, I won't mention names, but ones like Lovano.
Notice how he is stomping his heel on 1 and 3;
 
#13 ·
My instructor pit up some interesting practice tracks on SoundCloud. They are based on trading 4s with various levels of accompaniment on the Bb blues.

The really tough stuff is when it's 4 bars of click and 4bars of no click. Of course you get no clicks on this.

Great stuff, at least for me. Good focused study is important when there's only so much practice time available.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Forum Runner
 
#14 ·
My instructor pit up some interesting practice tracks on SoundCloud. They are based on trading 4s with various levels of accompaniment on the Bb blues.

The really tough stuff is when it's 4 bars of click and 4bars of no click. Of course you get no clicks on this.

Great stuff, at least for me. Good focused study is important when there's only so much practice time available.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Forum Runner
Do you have a link? Seems useful!
 
#15 ·
Learn a tune that you love by a great a vocalist with great time sings. Something you've known and loved for a while. Get the lead sheet. Play it to the time in your memory. Memorize it so you are playing without reading. Play to the timing you love by hearing the vocalist sing it in your mind. Then start phrasing it like you would like to, but still in time. It's something that becomes automatic.

Also, listen to the other responses, which are valid.

Can you walk up to a drum and play a nice rhythm or do you stumble around? Go to a drum store and try it. Most folks can't pound out a rhythm. Get a practice pad and a pair of sticks. Learn some basis rudiments....single stroke roll, double stroke roll, paradiddle, etc. Free guides on ebay. Guaranteed, this will improve your rhythm. If you lose time on drums, you notice it as soon as you hit the drum on that off time stroke. Drums are good....you are not worrying about a melody, tone, etc., just working on time. And, it's a lot of fun.
 
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