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Long & McQuade: ethically challenged?

17K views 72 replies 29 participants last post by  lindsay 
#1 ·
Recent sale at L&M had several vintage Mark VI tenors on display. Each of them were said
to have been repaired and ready to play. But each had a distinctive 'signature' added to the neck.

The 'signature' (purely cosmetic) is a black knurled band placed on the neck, a signature that
is well-known around Toronto and beyond, as belonging to Mike Filice, a repair tech who once
worked part time at L&M as well as his own shop. When he went on his own full time this
'signature' went with him. It was never at L&M before and Mike had been using it when he was
working in NYC for ten years and brought it with him when he started working at L&M in Toronto.

So it was assumed that the horns at L&M had been repaired by Mike at some point. Turns out
not to be the case. Seems the repair department at L&M decided that it was ok to appropriate
another tech's 'signature'. When asked if the horns were repaired by Mike, L&M management
were very evasive. When asked if they weren't, then why was his 'signature' being used by a
major retailer, the response was defensive. But no explanation was ever provided.

Now an individual tech lives from repair to repair; why would L&M need to take another tech's
branding? Why wouldn't a multi-million dollar company want to develop its' own 'signature'
for its' repair department? Seems like L&M has a passing acquaintance with ethical standards.

Not cool L&M.

Thierry
 
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#2 ·
I guess they figure that since they've pretty much put everyone else out of business they can do whatever they want.

Sadly, they're probably right. There's no bad press if there's no competition?
 
#33 ·
I'm going to make two posts here. First to confront the accusations (very false ones at that) that Long & McQuade "runs stores out of business". The next post will be on the repair branding issue.

Full disclosure, I worked as an education rep as well as other positions for Long & McQuade for over 5 years, and while it isn't my full time gig anymore I still work there part-time when they need extra help. Having said that. I call it how I see it. I am not a L&M yes man and have been very vocal about my dislike of certain practices and company policies but have also commended them when they do something right as well. There are claims being made here that amount to uninformed slander and that's just not acceptable.



Since this post was first, I'll address it in that order. Could you kindly show me one single example of Long & McQuade putting another company out of business? You can't, and I'll tell you why. It has never happened. Not once, and I mean once, has Long & McQuade EVER approached another company and tried to buy them up, run them out of town. It has ALWAYS been the other way around. Bel Air Music in London, Northwest Music in Vancouver, MusicStop in the Maritimes all approached L&M to take control of them because they were either retiring or going bankrupt due to mismanagement. In those situations, the store was either converted to an L&M and the staff were given offers to stay or they were absorbed into another location such was the case with NorthWest Music. They have actually actively NOT gone into specific markets where there was already a strong music store presence.

Before Bel Air Music changed over to L&M they didn't have any stores there. Do you think that was by accident? If they wanted to run a company out of business they would set up shop right across the street from them and just wait for them to fold. They just don't do that. Prussin Music in Vancouver has been begging L&M to buy the store and building for years because the owner wants to get out of the music business and just handle real estate. L&M didn't want Prussin because there is no need but this year they came to an agreement to take on their band rental accounts so that their customers wouldn't be S.O.L when the store closed at the end of this year. Then guess what? Another music store (Tapestry) came in a bought out Prussin and re-branded it as their company. Funny how that doesn't get mentioned anywhere in these type of posts :)

I tried to stay out of this one but I can't not butt in my .02.

Please people. Do not support Long & McQuade. They are literally the Wal*Mart of music. A huge multi million dollar company that seemingly offer low prices and deals to their customers but their mark ups are bonkers. My experience working there was terrible. Being in a department that wasn't their biggest money maker we were all treated like lesser employees. Our freedom to actually persue music was seriously curbed and the number of times there were "mistakes" with my cheques and benefits left me poor on almost a monthly basis despite killing myself working full time for them.

Although some of the folks are great the company does not deserve your support. Please go to your local Mom and Pop shops. The people they put out of business on a monthly basis.

If we're questioning their ethics regarding their customers please consider how they treat their employees.
OK, so I don't really need to address the "putting stores out of business" thing here because I just went over that in my last paragraph so I'll touch on the "mark-ups are bonkers" business. Plain and simple they aren't bonkers and they are right in line with what everyone else does. I've posted about this before but with many products you have to respect the MSRP and unless there is a special promotion you can't deviate from it. Print is the only thing that has a crazy mark-up, I will give you that, which is why for sales like boxing day and inventory clearance, etc, they basically give it away to get it out of the store. But again, a lot of those prices are suggested by Hal Leonard or Alfred or whichever publisher/distributor it may be. It's about brand and price consistency. Yamaha doesn't want a store selling their YTS-26 for $400 dollars less than everyone is selling it for. It devalues their brand and model and leads to inconsistencies in their value. Now is everything priced the same as everywhere else? No, there is obviously some wiggle room on certain items but it's not like a box of vandorens is gonna be off by more than a dollar or two. Also think of the infrastructure and costs to run L&M. They have to support 70+ stores across the country and probably employ over 3000 people throughout Canada. Maybe more so it's a hell of a lot more expensive and complicated than running a mom & pop with 3 employees and a backroom warehouse.

Calling it the Wal-Mart of Music is just so off that it's eye-roll worthy. It's a Canadian company that hires Canadians that also makes, manufactures, and distributes products in Canada. Their sister company Yorkville Sound makes the bulk of their PA gear in Pickering, Ontario and is the Canadian distributor for brands like Gibson, Mapek, Line 6, etc. Also, I'm pretty sure everyone in the company is making more than minimum wage. They provide you with health coverage, albeit not the greatest, and will match pension contributions to a certain amount. How very Wal-Mart of them. I know that the Victoria store under it's previous regime was very difficult at times so I can understand that but it's certainly not a company philosophy to curb their employees musical pursuits. Like 90% of the people who work there are musicians. At all 3 of the locations that I've worked at my managers were gigging 2 or 3 nights a week and I had no problem getting time off to do the same as long as I made up for the time missed and my duties were being completed and my department was covered. It's your job, your responsibility. I can't attest to the cheques or benefits getting messed up. I'm sure it happens from time to time as I would expect it would happen pretty much anywhere. I'm sure it got resolved though and again, I wouldn't imagine that L&M's head office accounting/payroll/benefits dept has a bone to pick with anyone but hey, I wasn't there and I don't really know. I've had some paycheques be off as well and they were always rectified in the end. Yeah, working Saturdays sucks. Doing inventory sucks. Working on the floor isn't the best job in the world but it's far from the worst.

I try, but L&M has managed to almost kill all their competition. Mom and Pop shops are getting harder and harder to find.

I support my tech and his shop--Matterhorn Music--has much as I can. Although sometimes I have to bite the bullet and buy from L&M. It does make my stomach turn when I do.... :sick:
We've had this conversation before. I get it, you want to support the local small businesses and I do that too for certain things but to say it makes your stomach turn to shop at L&M is pretty immature. Why do it then? No one is putting a gun to your head to shop at L&M. I'm pretty certain that there is nothing in the band department at L&M that you can only exclusively buy there so you could buy it somewhere else or online. You would only be shopping there because it is more convenient to you or it presented some other advantage price wise or service wise. That choice is on you and up to your preferred business to compete with.

If there's any other questions or rumours out there that need to be debunked, I'd be happy to continue.
 
#3 ·
I would talk to the tech at L&M directly. He works at the Ossington store. I have in he past on another matter and was satisfied he is competent. On a positive note the VIs, SBA, and Couf were on consignment and very well priced. Enough so to hold and flip, or have an overhaul. Fyi There was an early SBA at the Burlington stor a week ago. Relac I believe
I know nothing about the signiture band on the horns. But if L@M added it just add value, there is really no need. If they are mis representing a horn they need to be called out on it.
 
#24 ·
While my reaction wouldn't be violent, I would express my displeasure to any tech who left anything resembling a signature on my horns, be it a sticker or a band or anything. I would insist they remove it and never put it on any horns I bring to them in the future. If they did it again, that would be the last time I would bring them a horn. And I would trash their name all over town.
 
#6 ·
Thinking about it, its not the same as Emilio's sticker. There is no name on the band, and i guess its simply put there to stop the mpc's from sliding in too much unless im missing something.
So not sure that the signature rule would apply here. Just something people have gotten used to seeing with Mike's work that's true...

If their tech wants to do it, they are free to do it really without having to explain or justify. L&M should be upfront and clear about who set it up etc.
I don't think they would say Mike set it up if he didn't, there is really no point. And i believe they are proud to have the tech they do, he just has a bad attitude and for that reason alone i would not take my stuff there.
 
#7 ·
The young tech was called on it by a number of local pros; according to one of them he just laughed and said "mike will just have to get over it"
when he was told that Mike wasn't happy. So clearly the L&M tech intended to us someone else's signature. The band has no practical use and
doesn't stop a mic from sliding; it's sole purpose is for a tech to define his work.
 
#8 ·
The L&M tech (Chris) apprenticed with Filice when he went full time. So there's no question that Chris knew exactly what he was doing by taking Mike's
signature as his own. What baffles the mind is that Chris has the potential to be a decent repair tech, so why wouldn't he design his own unique signature
rather than stealing that of his ex-boss? Speaks to his own integrity as an individual and as a future business person. Lose the trust, lose the business.
 
#9 ·
I am wondering if Mike Filice has any legal ground against Long & McQuade? More specifically, that if he hired a lawyer to send a letter to Long & McQuade, getting the attention of higher ups there, whom might respond by telling the repair department to desist from putting on the neck cork ornament.
 
#10 ·
OMG just saw this today! Yes I too was very confused. I was just at L&M last week trying out an SBA tenor (killer horn) and thought so myself "yet again, Mike did a fabulous job overhauling the horn" (I take ALL of my horn to Mike so I'm familiar with the neck band) but to my surprise it was the store tech who did it. So yes, I do believe that they gotta stop doing that, it's Mike's signature. Maybe they were trying to not copy it exactly, the tape was dark purple not black.... Regardless it's Mike's thing
 
#11 ·
Mike says he and a fellow pro player met with two members of upper management and they told him that there was no
malice intended and no intention to confuse. They further said the practice would stop AND the bands on the horns
currently on display would be removed. This was three weeks ago and the bands are still on the horns.

Mike says he spoke directly with Chris and that he (Chris) was defiant and angry insisting he could do whatever he wanted. In
addition Mike spoke with Greg, the manager of the band department, who also agreed that the practice would stop and all bands
removed.

To date L&M has done none of the above. Shame!
 
#17 ·
To L&M repair tech Chris, whomever you are:

You can establish your own reputation as a good tech. Plagiarizing another tech's trademark in a dishonest attempt to ride in the wake of his success is not the path. Do good repair work, create lasting relationships with your satisfied customers, and stand on your own merits. If you want a long, successful career in the industry, and even - dare I say - satisfaction and happiness form your work, then you need to do good, honest work. There are no shortcuts.
 
#23 ·
The band might constitute an unregistered trademark of Mike Filice and he might be able to pursue the common law tort or action of passing off.

The law of passing off prevents one person from misrepresenting services as being the services of another, and also prevents a person from holding out his services as having some association or connection with another when this is not true.

The problem is that lawyers' fees would be prohibitive unless the plaintiff did the action in a small claims court.
 
#25 ·
No one said it was overhauled by Mike. It was merely assumed, and all assumptions got cleared when asked who did the work. The store is not intentionally misleading anyone.
Its just unethical to let their tech do it if Mike has a problem with it.

Im wondering if the situation has been resolved and hoping all is well. I would expect it to be a misunderstanding and not intentional malice.
 
#26 ·
I tried to stay out of this one but I can't not butt in my .02.

Please people. Do not support Long & McQuade. They are literally the Wal*Mart of music. A huge multi million dollar company that seemingly offer low prices and deals to their customers but their mark ups are bonkers. My experience working there was terrible. Being in a department that wasn't their biggest money maker we were all treated like lesser employees. Our freedom to actually persue music was seriously curbed and the number of times there were "mistakes" with my cheques and benefits left me poor on almost a monthly basis despite killing myself working full time for them.

Although some of the folks are great the company does not deserve your support. Please go to your local Mom and Pop shops. The people they put out of business on a monthly basis.

If we're questioning their ethics regarding their customers please consider how they treat their employees.
 
#32 ·
...Please go to your local Mom and Pop shops. ...
I try, but L&M has managed to almost kill all their competition. Mom and Pop shops are getting harder and harder to find.

I support my tech and his shop--Matterhorn Music--has much as I can. Although sometimes I have to bite the bullet and buy from L&M. It does make my stomach turn when I do.... :sick:
 
#27 ·
Mike Filice repairs my horns. I highly recommend him, he provides a great service at a reasonable rate. My horns have never played better.

I have been a loyal customer for decades of Long & McQuade and their customer service has been superb in every way, but I am disappointed in that Greg Eskins, dept. manager, has let this thing happen. Greg says the issue has been resolved. Mike Filice says it is not. I'm thinking that I am going to buy my reeds somewhere else for the time being.
 
#28 ·
This is a strange one. I guess if he was doing this at L&M then they might think their customers want it from them. I doubt it is something that has any sort of protection so anyone could add it to their horns. I guess he'd need a patent to protect it and I doubt he has that or could obtain it. So is it unethical to copy something with no patent protection? It happens all the time regardless.
I think he should call it a 'tone generator' then everyone would want one.
 
#30 ·
I think he should call it a 'tone generator' then everyone would want one.
Fondly remembering "p-ligging" ...

Oh, and the LefreQue
 
#29 ·
Aside from the obvious lack of ethics of the business, did Mike use this recognizable banding prior to working there? If Mike developed this on his own prior to employment there, he might have legal standing that it is his own personal unregistered trademark. If he developed and applied this banding while working there (while being a paid employee or contractor of the business), then from a legal standpoint the business may actually own the signature banding (if it is even something that can be protected as a trademark).
 
#35 ·
On to the repair thing.

I'll just say this. I know Chris well, I don't know Mike as well but am very familiar with his work and reputation and I know some details as to why he and L&M parted ways.

I hadn't heard of this neck band controversy. It's a bit weird. It's definitely not an L&M company wide thing. It's a Bloor store thing. The Bloor store repair guys are responsible for repairing Bloor store horns and customer horns that come in to the store. They will occasionally higher end customer horn repairs that come into other stores at the GTA. L&M has a main repair facility in Ajax where the majority of instruments get worked on. Basic repairs, rentals, etc. They have multiple techs working there and do the work for all the other stores in Ontario. Bloor is it's own entity and is run differently than every other L&M in Canada, save for the Vancouver store which also has some differences to other stores. So this neck band thing is specifically an isolated Bloor store thing and not an L&M company thing.

I'm not going to make any comments on this right now as I haven't done my own inquiry on this but will look into it and see what each side has to say. Will report back after.
 
#57 ·
I guess that depends on who you are. To me Massullo was a friendly place on the surface, but I have had a good share of condescension while there. And one case of just straight up terrible service.

I've come to the conclusion that some repair people have attitudes towards "lesser" musicians. I certainly saw a lot more of it when I was younger. But even now, I sometimes have gotten the impression that certain techs are sniffing me out to see if I am worthy of their respect. And since I am not a great player, I still occasionally get shade from some of them. The last time was at Massullo. I won't go there ever again. Which is a shame, as there was a horn there I was really interested in but don't even want to go in and look at it. I drive a lot further to get repairs done now. Matterhorn was very friendly, as was Prussin, so I'll go to those places (or whatever Prussin is called now).

Actually a friend of mine had a similar tech condescension issue at L&M. She was reduced to tears. Although in her case, the manager saw her on the way out and treated her well and tried to make up for it by doing a few nice things for her.
 
#40 ·
Again...that is not what you did. You put words in quotation marks that I never used and then, in my case, commenced your intemperate rant against something I never said. You have written a lot, but you still haven't managed to say anything relevant to my comment.

With regard to typical big box retailer marketing plans, there's nothing even remotely interesting to talk about here. Small stores cannot offer to sell new gear with 0% financing, they cannot compete with large chains in negotiating prices with suppliers, and they cannot offer a huge selection of goods supposedly "in stock" by referring to a nation-wide "warehouse." This is why they are rapidly going extinct. Honestly, I'd say someone would have to be seriously asleep in his or her own life not to understand this basic reality facing all modern consumers and retailers. Or, to put it another way, you'd have to pretend someone was unjustly "vilifying" L&M not to simply acknowledge a truth everyone understands perfectly well.

It would seem like you spend a lot of time defending the "company" against people who don't like it. This does not surprise me. However, if you can stop your knee jerking long enough, please consider that I am just one person, not a crowd, and that fact that you think competition would be good does not change the fact that there isn't any.
 
#41 ·
Again...that is not what you did. You put words in quotation marks that I never used and then, in my case, commenced your intemperate rant against something I never said. You have written a lot, but you still haven't managed to say anything relevant to my comment.

With regard to typical big box retailer marketing plans, there's nothing even remotely interesting to talk about here. Small stores cannot offer to sell new gear with 0% financing, they cannot compete with large chains in negotiating prices with suppliers, and they cannot offer a huge selection of goods supposedly "in stock" by referring to a nation-wide "warehouse." This is why they are rapidly going extinct. Honestly, I'd say someone would have to be seriously asleep in his or her own life not to understand this basic reality facing all modern consumers and retailers. Or, to put it another way, you'd have to pretend someone was unjustly "vilifying" L&M not to simply acknowledge a truth everyone understands perfectly well.

It would seem like you spend a lot of time defending the "company" against people who don't like it. This does not surprise me. However, if you can stop your knee jerking long enough, please consider that I am just one person, not a crowd, and that fact that you think competition would be good does not change the fact that there isn't any.
These are all services that benefit the customer. Bottom line. They aren't tactics L&M is doing to run mom and pops out of business. They are doing it so that their customers can get the instruments and gear that they want when they want it, how they want it. They are offering flexibility and convenience. Yes, such a terrible thing. Anyway, I'm not going to get into this any further. It's your choice as is everyone's to shop where you want. If people didn't find that they were doing a good job on the whole then they would have gone out of business a long time ago. They are offering what they consider to be the best service to the customer. There isn't any shady dealings on that. L&M started as a one man operation in a rented office in Toronto. Just stop tired of hearing the BS from people that they are trying to run businesses into the ground when it's not the case. They've actively gone out of their way not to go into areas that already had a strong music store presence. What would you have them do? Not have sales or specials and return policies or extended warranties? If you want better competition then maybe the competition should be better. Go talk to Tom Lee or St. John's Music. They have the resources to compete with L&M in certain markets so if they wanted to expand that further then they could. They choose not to. St. John's dominates a lot of the market in the Prairies. Why is there Toronto store an after thought? Tell me what you'd like L&M to do differently because all I'm hearing are examples of how to give the customer better value. Anyway, I'd rather not continue to rant on this as there is no benefit on either side clearly.
 
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