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Who is still playing a Borgani in 2015 ?

20K views 104 replies 33 participants last post by  buddy lee 
#1 ·
Hi guys,

after a very hot first time with our Borgani horns, (let's say from 2002 to 2010), the candle seems to be weakened in this last 2 years.
Are you still playing your Borgs? What do you think after so much time about your instrument? Are you still in love? If you have changed ... with what and why?
 
#2 ·
I bought one in January of this year. I love it! I'm not sure exactly which model I have, though its one with a J serial number with what I believe is the pearl silver finish.

It has a great big, deep sound that lets me shape it how I like. Its still new days for me on this horn after playing my old one for 20 odd years. But the journey promises to be quite enjoyable.
 
#3 ·
I am still playing my Mk1 Jubilee Matt silver, that I have had for several years now. I love it's sound and playability , and with a Morgan Fry HR marbled MP, it speaks easily from top to bottom.

Nothing I have seen before or since will tempt me away from this Borg!

Blowhard2
 
#5 ·
I am still playing my Mk1 Jubilee Matt silver, that I have had for several years now. I love it's sound and playability , and with a Morgan Fry HR marbled MP, it speaks easily from top to bottom.
Nothing I have seen before or since will tempt me away from this Borg!
Blowhard2
"Matti Silver" ... do you intend the Pearl Silver finishing? Do you had any intonation problem with your setup? I mean, I have the same horn and my D2 is lower in volume than all the other notes and a little "higher" in intonation.
 
#6 ·
I am still playing my silver plate Jubilee tenor. No intonation issues - I find it very mouthpiece friendly. My preferred mouthpieces are from Ben Allen (20TD/.102 and 10E/.102) and Fred Lamberson (J/.115 and L/.110).



My soprano is now also a Borgani Jubilee, featuring a Phil-Tone Sapphire .070.

 
#8 ·
Interestingly Doc. & off topic, that gorgeous tenor case is identical to that of my R&C R1.
The Italians certainly intend their horns to be secure.
Similar playing characteristics between the two marques also.
 
#10 ·
My original case is very different from the one sold with the Borgs nowadays. It's similar to Dr G one but probably also a little bit better .. talking about internal space. If I manage I will post some picture of it.
Dr G is your neck original? The reinforcement is very different from mine that is closer to the neck.
That soprano is a beauty.

Next friday I will be at the Borgani.. I will see all the news they have and I will try some different tenors like the Vintage and the Pearl gold ... I'm terribly curious!!
 
#11 ·
My original case is very different from the one sold with the Borgs nowadays. It's similar to Dr G one but probably also a little bit better .. talking about internal space. If I manage I will post some picture of it.
Dr G is your neck original? The reinforcement is very different from mine that is closer to the neck.
That soprano is a beauty.

Next friday I will be at the Borgani.. I will see all the news they have and I will try some different tenors like the Vintage and the Pearl gold ... I'm terribly curious!!
That is the original neck, as modified by Karsten Gloger - the brace is from an old Conn. Karsten also removed the octave key saddle.

G'luck, Joe, on finding one of these sops. I've been watching and waiting a long while too. I just had it overhauled by forum member Shmueljosef and it is Wonderful.
 
#12 ·
Sorry, I meant Pearl Silver!

The only issue I ever had with it was "running out of volume" over the octave key.
I was playing an original Morgan Fry 015 HR piece, so I rang him and he recommended a slight mod, and a new 112 MP which sorted it out.
Intonation throughout the horn ahs always been spot on for my cloth ears!

Blowhard2
 
#13 ·
Remember me to Orpheo and Massimo. I saw them earlier this year. I will be interested to her what you think of the "new " Models....

Blowhard2
 
#14 ·
Regarding "volume" - the bari player of our big band (sits on the opposite end of the section) recently asked me to play the Borgani instead of my King Super 20, because the Borgani has more projection and presence on the band stand. The Super 20 remains my "back up" tenor.
 
#18 ·


I think Joe Lovano knows, he was there not so long ago.......

Orfeo Borgani, whom I have the honor of counting among my best contacts ( if not my friends) in the business, always told me that they were never going to compromise on Borgani being completely made in Macerata and politely refused buying even small parts from the Taiwanese maker that I was helping with export.

I don't know if they ever reconsidered that but I personally don't think so.
 
#22 ·
I will be at the Borgani next Friday and I will tell you what I will see.
I'm sure they are working and producing all their "bestsellers" there. I'm not sure if they are producing also the entry level horns in their factory.

Here you are the case:





I think that around 2000/2003 they spent a little bit more for the cases than now..
 
#26 ·
Hi.

The big questions for me are who in E.U has them up for sale ...but also what is going on with the body of the new range ? The Jubilee had a very similar bore size to the old Conn. Is the new one the same with a small bell or is it the same as most other horns around today ( like a MK6/ Yamaha/ Yanagisawa/ ext ) I have not played or seen what is known as an O.B. As we now have none in the U.K.
What we do have here now is the T.J Raw. That is doing very well and has a very, Very similar bore size and body shape to the old Jubilee.
 
#28 ·
Also for me the College line is not produced in Italy neither sold by them directly.
There are not models in their website and I think that producing around 300 pieces per year they have just the time to satisfy the requests of the Jubilee range.
Probably the College is produced in China or Taiwan or Indonesia.
 
#29 ·
It's a real shame that Howarth's discontinued their agency for Borgani, but I am sure they will sort out another UK dealer in due course.

Borgani is a niche market, bespoke artisan craftsman shop, with limited resources to market their magic horns. As Ziebelu notes , there are several EU agents , the nearest to Uk being the Netherlands .

As cases go, the Bam manufactured 2 tone grey/ black sold by Borgani, is the best I have found for my Jubilee- fits like a glove, ( similar in compact design to the original ) and very well protected!.

Be interested to hear what a native Italian finds out about current manufacturing . marketing / agency situation, when he visits - be good to stop the uninformed, somewhat sketchy, hearsay, speculations........................ .Let's clear the air!

Blowhard2
 
#30 ·
Rafael Navarro has taken up Borgani distribution in the U.S. He got me a Borgani-branded BAM case last year.



Contrast this image with the one on the previous page to see the difference in fit, padding, and storage space.

 
#31 ·
Yes Doc - that's the one!

Bowhard2
 
#33 ·
It's shinier! :twisted:

I didn't own them both at the same time, so I cannot comment on that. Further, the silver pearl Jubilee was an early vintage (409J). The silver plate horn is 18xxxJ, and was built up with different springs, pads, and resos - so there is really no way to attribute any difference in tone to the body finish. Both horns play with a huge voice and unique timbre that has divorced me of any further interest in finding my #1 tenor. Yes, I have other tenors, but the Jubilee that Matt Stohrer overhauled is unique in the world, and it is staying with me as my prime time player.

BTW, I have played some of the "OB" horns with smaller bells. They are good, but not the same voice as the bigger bell "J" series tenors.
 
#42 · (Edited)
I've just came back. Great day in Macerata!

I arrived there at 9:30. I explained to Orfeo and Marco my two problems: intonation and volume of the second D. They tried to solve the first problem for hours.. at the end we discovered that I have the same problem with all their horns. We adjusted everything insering some rings in some keys. Marco improved the volume of my D very fast.. now my horn is absolutely pefect. They customized it for my playing way. They have been very nice and Orfeo staied with me all day long.

I tried all the new serie (the third): Vintage, Pearl Silver, Pearl Gold and Special Edition.
The new Silver Pearl is more or less like my one.. maybe my one is a little bit louder but I played it for 12 years.. the new one seemed to be easy but with a lower volume.. i think that it need to played. I didn't find any big improvements in the mechanics (my one is very good) also if they assured me that they are improving it from time to time. They generally customize the mech and action listening to the players requests.
The Vintage is very nice.. very free blowing (more than the new silver pearl), the sound is a vintage sound but fatter than a MVI. It's very easy and interesting. Less volume than the Silver Pearl but a little bit more focused. Very easy in the upper part.
The Pearl gold is the one I like less. It's like the Silver Pearl in everything but with a "brighter" sound than the other two. I was not interested in it and I dropped it quite immediately.
I didn't like also the Special Edition.. It has been the less free blowing. The sound is not so characteristic as the others.
At the end my one is the one I prefeared.. and after the setup it improved in everything.

I asked why the moved to have a smaller bell. Orfeo told me that the stamps for their bells were old and when they had to rebuild them they decided for a smaller and more gentle shape. He told me that this do not change anything in the sound because the differences in measures are very low. It has been just a "look" improvement. And this is also what I found playing them

I asked Orfeo lots of things about their marketing, sellings and productions.
He had some difficulties in let the dealers understand the quality of their saxes. Some of the dealers generally are interested in profit so if they can earn a little more selling a Yamaha or any other more common/known horn they prefear pushing it. Borgani saxes are not easy to sell, they need knowledge and passion. Some of these dealers didn't want to buy them because of the cost and so now they closed the partnership with some old dealers and they are opening some new partnerships with some others. They want the customers to go to The Borgani directly more and more because they want to show their quality and philosophy directly to the players and customize the instruments for each one. In any case they will obviously continue in selling through the dealers and they will refresh the contacts in their website.

He told me that the Borgs are totally hand made horns. The cost of their saxes is hight because of the long and particular production process.. it's not an industrial production and every horn is different from the others. They are very focused in all the small particularity of their saxes: he showed me how all the columns are fixed one by one differently from all the others industrial manufacturings where more columns are fixed on a plate together.. this let the sound and the horn vibrate much more. He showed me that every single piece of the horn have the same manufacturing number. All the keys and the neck of my sax f.e. have the number "88".
They told me that they produce every horn in Macerata... more or less 280-300 per year. Part of the production is done in two other laboratories nearby because they were too noisy (the hammer beat) and too delicate (the finishing) to do it in that place .. The Borgani factory is in a residencial area. They are just 10 people and I think this is fantastic. It's really a small company.

He explained me their sound philosophy: they wanted to create something completely different from what their competitors gives: they tried to reach the sound of the old Conns and the easy mechanics of the Selmers. They managed in creating something that is really special and different from all the others.

After visiting the company and talking with Orfeo and all the other employes, if you have a Borgani horn you feel like a part of something, a part of a romantic italian philosophy. Your sax is your one and it's different from the one next to you. It's like when you are in a pet shop and you have to choose the one you feel more close to your aim..

I spent a very nice day. Just to let you know how they work I want to tell you this thing: my horn doesn't still have the "drop shape" Bb key. I asked them if it was possible to change it. They told me that they wanted to modify my one and not substitute it because they wanted to keep on my sax the key number 88 that was borne with it. They immediately moved to modify the piece and silver plate it in few hours! Just when we realized that my intonation problem was taking too much time they realized that they couldn't finish that piece today. They asked me witch problem was the most important between the key and the intonation and I decided to solve the intonation. I was amazed that in few hours they were ready to modify a key, insert it on my horn and also apply the silver finishing on that piece.. and that because I had a long trip to arrive there and they wanted me to go away totally satisfied !! They are very nice and versatile.. 10 people against the big international companies.. isn't it romantic?
 
#44 ·
Thanks for your Borgani story Ziubelu.I played a vintage J tenor for a number of years,it was a very beautiful instrument with a terrific action and a voice all of it's own,the horn was very responsive and warm,but it also had a very lively zing to the sound.I sold it because I had too many vintage Selmers and storage problems.If I ever make my way to the Borgani factory I would like to play some pearl silver tenors.It would be exciting trying many of the options the factory could offer,necks etc ,lucky you!
 
#46 ·
There are some little differences but the sound aim is the same. As I explained my one seems to be louder and also the action is faster but I play t for long time instead the one I tried is new. This gives big differences. What I found is similar to the differences you can find trying two silver Pearl of the same year.
 
#48 ·
Love the Borgs:) I still play my Lovano model all the time with a pearl gold neck. I'm currently using a Sakshama Florida piece on it and the combo is outstanding!
 
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