Sax on the Web Forum banner

lowering the strap ring for a tall guy - is it wise? Ever heard?

6K views 44 replies 19 participants last post by  milandro 
#1 ·
Hey,
I am a beginner, and I switched from clarinet to tenor sax, and the first thing I noticed how uncomfortable it was. The parameters: I have a 1936 Buescher Aristocrat (haven't tried any other kind), and I'm 6'4", 194 cm, with a looooong giraffe neck. For shorter people, the strap ring is over their stomach - mine is like five-six inches higher, over the middle of my sternum. As a consequence, I gotta push the sax away from me with my left thumb, but so hard that my left hand fingers can't move freely.
I had an idea, and I put a wire between two posts like three inches below the strap ring, and I hooked the strap there. Wow! What a difference! My left hand was alive!
My question is: have you ever heard of lowering the strap ring? Or should I have another ring put up and have two, like on bass clarinets?
Mod people, pour your wisdom on me.
Thanks.
 
#2 ·
Alto players get by with the strap hook much closer to their face.

Generally the loop is moved for balance issues - too high bites you in the face, off to one side is bad for your wrists.

Try a longer strap.
 
#5 ·
But if I make the strap longer, the mp comes under my chin, I gotta drop my head and my embouchure is dead. Or isn't it? I've been playing with it for like five months, trying different straps and harnesses, and suddenly I came up with this wire solution and it worked amazingly well.
Yep, my tech also told me that the ring is placed for balance reasons - that's why I was thinking of two rings like bass clarinets have.
I am a beginner and I am really open to any suggestions, and thanks for sharing your opinion.
 
#6 ·
A competent teacher will fix this problem in seconds, but we could be months trying to get to the root of it online.
 
#10 ·
No, don't make your neckstrap longer--get a shorter neckstrap that doesn't have to be adjusted as much, so that the adjustment mechanism over your sternum. I'm just average height at 5' 10", but I use an alto/tenor strap that only has to be adjusted about an inch--way below my sternum. I have other straps that are tenor/baritone straps, and the adjustment mechanism comes up too high for me on tenor.

It might also be that the tenor's neck needs to be rotated one way or the other. It doesn't matter where you have it, as long as the octave mechanism is engaged.

Try going to a music store and try some different neckstraps.
 
#11 ·
Notice how I qualified my recommendation? Many cats can play, few can teach well. It's no reflection on them as musicians, but some just don't give much thought to various aspects that beginners need to focus on - like hand placement, assembling the horn so it fits the player and other mundane bits which make all the difference.

Find a competent teacher, it will take them seconds to get you going, or we can discuss online for days without any real data to base our discussion on.
 
#12 ·
Back to the strap ring position.... It's not uncommon to move them, but not for the reason you describe. Usually it's to change the vertical balance point, or to shift the instrument horizontally around its vertical axis to make the key positions more comfortable. Unless it's previously been moved, the horn you have has the strap ring positioned for best balance at rest. The horn will hang on the strap at about a 45 deg angle. That said, it's your horn. Have it put it where it makes you comfortable.

Top of the instrument is secured with your mouth. The bottom with your right thumb on the thumb hook. You should not be pushing out with the left hand, you should be pushing out lightly with the right thumb to push the instrument a little off your body. Just be aware that as you develop, you'll probably end up having it moved back as your right thumb starts getting tired from having to push the bottom out even harder than it was in the stock position.
 
#13 ·
Something you said, OP, that I'm curious about - do you know how to let out and take up the slack (or lack thereof) of the neck strap?
 
#19 ·
weeeell... I have to admit that I don't understand these, ummm, technical terms. I feel like the guy who's asked if he knows how to play the violin, and he goes, "I don't know, I've never tried." So maybe I do, but most probably I don't. :) But if you explain, I can give you a more precise answer.
 
#15 ·
The springing, key geometry, leverages, etc are indeed a pain to play on many old saxes compared with the modern standard (modelled on Mark VI, when Selmer obviously had a decent mechanical design engineer in the plant.)

Perhaps he was referring, realistically, to this as much as anything else.
 
#16 ·
If the horn is balanced on the strap, moving it will result in it hitting you in the face or wanting to tilt forward all the time. Neither is ideal. Just get the right strap, and teacher
 
#18 ·
if you could find a wolf Codera ADDjust Balancer gizmo ( I think his company went out of business at some stage)

You should find the ADDjust Balancer on our website www.codera.com clicking products and then ADDjust.




This Dutch shop should still have a few for €64

http://www.vangorp.nl/nl/speel-hulpmiddelen/Codera-Codera-ADDjust-Balancer-129503.html

This accessory was invented and developed precisely for this purpose of altering ( without any alteration of the saxophone) the balancing point of any saxophone with a ring where you place a hook.

Wolf Codera ( apparently a German SOTW member http://forum.saxontheweb.net/member.php?9469-Wolf-Codera ) not a very tall player himself, produced a number of these and they found diffusion mostly in the countries of North of Europe .

 
#20 ·
Thanks everyone for helping. My main question is answered: basically no one changes the position of the ring - which is good info. I though it was as common as putting sugru on your palm keys.
From your answers, I guess I gotta attack some sax players/teachers first. It sounds the cheapest and has the least damage... But this Codera Addjust balancer (what a name... addjust??? :-D ) also looks interesting. We'll see, I'll report back later.
Thanks again!
 
#21 ·
I don't really understand why the height of the player is a big factor in relation to strap length or strap ring position on the horn. The important geometry is about the distance between the player's mouth and the back of their neck, where the strap rests. That distance would be very similar if the player was 6 feet 4 inches or 5 feet tall.

Or am I missing something ?

Rhys
 
#29 ·
I don't really understand why the height of the player is a big factor in relation to strap length or strap ring position on the horn.
Hey Rhys,
the problem is that even if you are a skinny guy, like me, your stomach still sticks out, unless you're 19. If you are 5 feet, the sax goes under your belly. However, if you are 6'4", the sax lies on your stomach, minimum two-three inches out. Looking at the sax a lever with the strap ring as its pivot, if the bottom comes up, the other side goes in - so you feel like your mp wants to deepthroat you. As a consequence, you have to push the sax away from you with your left thumb real hard, making the octave changes (and generally all left finger moves) slower. If you lower the strap ring, thus moving the pivot of a lever off center, there's much less force that I have to fight. It's like a teeter: if you move its pivot to one side, on the other side you will need much less force to counterbalance.
Iso
 
#26 ·
most people fit any given saxophone and live and play it by simply adjusting the the strap. Some people, unavoidably, since humans come in all sorts of sizes and express all sorts of different wishes and have different habits, will have problems to fit a saxophone just as much as they might have problems to fit the standard sizes of a suit.

Suits offer special sizes, some saxophones offered adjustable thumbrests and adjustable rings. You can have both of these installed on any saxophone but it requires to burn the lacquer in order to hard solder these appendixes.

The Codera System ( you add it and you adjust it , so ADD-Just ) was created to be added to your ring and adjust the fulcrum of the resulting system in order to balance it for your height and length of your arms.

Mind you some saxophones are naturally awkward when it comes to their balance so lot of people acquainted themselves with the snake kiss of the Conn.

This Codera gizmo MIGHT provide you with the solution that you are seeking.

As usual you are not the only one or the first to ask this around.

There are many previous threads in which we discuss this, some people made their own solutions. Not as elegant as this small mechanical device but certainly less expensive.

Good luck.
 
#27 ·
....I am a beginner, and I switched from clarinet to tenor sax.........
I have not seen anyone else mention this yet: The typical angle that one puts a sax mouthpiece in their mouth is much higher than that for a clarinet.
If you are putting your sax mouthpiece in your mouth at the same angle as the angle you put a clarinet mouthpiece in your mouth, that could be part of the problem.
 
#28 ·
I have a 1936 Buescher Aristocrat (haven't tried any other kind), and I'm 6'4", 194 cm, with a looooong giraffe neck. For shorter people, the strap ring is over their stomach - mine is like five-six inches higher, over the middle of my sternum.
The position of the strap ring to your sternum is arbitrary, just as is how much cork is showing on the neck when the mouthpiece is in the correct position for good intonation.

I, too, am 6'4", and have played Bueschers of that period with no issues. I agree with those that suggest you learn to properly adjust the strap length. The strap ring should be moved only if the horn does not balance properly.
 
#31 ·
For most playing, the bottom of the horn is to your side, not out in front like you see on TV and in movies. The only thing pushing the horn into your face should be your right thumb, not your gut or leg or anything else.

As I said a time or two already, a competent teacher can fix this very quickly.
 
#33 ·
Alto, tenor and bari? I play alto to the front, and the bigger ones to the side, then again I'm only 6'2". That's why the have that thing called a pants guard located in that position.
 
#35 ·
soprano, alto, tenor and the few times I did, Baritone too.

Again I know several people who do that.
Does this include people that play those horns while sitting? I, too, tend to play the tenor in front of my body while standing, but while seated (playing classical or in a section), I play the alto/tenor/bari to the side.

I am not a freak
That's a whole 'nother conversation. :twisted: :bluewink:
 
#36 ·
For a number of reasons, even when I sit down I play with the horn in front of me ( at community band we play is a sort of circle and you would be guaranteed to bang you horn is someone else’s sax, trumpet, cello, guitar or whatever the guy or gal next to you is playing.

I agree, it is an other conversation. :)
 
#43 ·
For a number of reasons, even when I sit down I play with the horn in front of me .....
I have noticed that the school band teachers in our town seem to encourage the alto sax players to position the alto sax in front of them while sitting, with the bottom of the sax being between their legs, and I don't understand why they do this.

I am 6'2" (188cm) with much of my height being in my body trunk as opposed to my legs. So if there is anyone who would be comfortable playing an alto sax in this position while sitting, you would think it would be me. But it's not - the right wrist gets put into an uncomfortable angle, and for people having a shorter body trunk than me, the problem should be worse. For the life of me, I cannot understand how this can be the optimum position for playing an alto sax while sitting - never mind the larger horns.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top