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Vintage King Tenor (ca 1925)

7K views 35 replies 11 participants last post by  jerumulliganrules 
#1 ·
Esteemed colleagues: I have been approached by a person who has inherited this vintage King tenor. She asked me to look into the value for her, so I knew right where to start. I believe this pre-dates the Super 20, so I'm at a loss as to desireability and value. She says it's playable. I might be able to test it on Friday, but I would like to have some preliminary information for her when I do.

Baritones are more my thing, so I will defer to your expertise. Many thanks in advance for your input!!!

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#2 ·
These split-bell Kings don't tend to sell for much.
With the way the market is right now, and considering that it will need pad work or more likely a full overhaul, I would think maybe $400 on a good day on e-bay. Most people would think it is not worth investing in re-padding it.
 
#4 ·
I have found that this is a Voll-True II model, made 1932-35. I assume the small manufacturing period means it was less than successful. However, my assumptions tend to be wildly inaccurate.......

Would this affect anything at this point?

Thanks!!!
 
#5 ·
I believe (someone can correct me if wrong) that this is just a Voll-True, not a Voll-True II (I have a Voll-True II alto in the shop). The Voll-True II would be engraved as such (I can't see the II from the pics but doesn't look like its there). Also, the Voll-True II had same side bell keys and similar key guards to the Zephyr, and had "square-shaped" keywork on the alt F# and on the low C and Eb pinky keys, like the early series Zephyr as well. Basically (very general), the Voll-true II was closer to the Zephyr while the first series Voll-True was closer to the king's made in the 20's, as the one in your pics seems to be (FWIW, I had a 1928 king tenor I just sold for for about $350, was in good playing shape, earlier kings pre-Zephyr don't go for much). Hope this helps!
 
#10 ·
I believe (someone can correct me if wrong) that this is just a Voll-True, not a Voll-True II
Right on the bell there it clearly it reads New Voll-True...which should put to rest any further speculation on the model. ;)

So this was the one between the VT and the VT-II....although it looks like a VT to me. Funny thing is there is zero info on these online, although there's info on the VT and the VT II. Dunno, perhaps they just tweaked a few things or added an additional key.

I really like these horns, they sound very smoky and old-school Jazzy. I have found the outdated online comments of them having serious intonation problems to be nothing but complete hooey (I would have rather used a word starting with "sh-", actually).....probably folks using the wrong kind of mouthpieces or playing horns which had unregulated keyheights or leaks.

I concur with everyone else above on value, however.

That horn needs an overhaul to really do it justice. Even from the pics the pads are shot and the body needs a chem bath.

So, as-is = $175-300. In top nick playing shape, though, I could easily get $600 for one.

The thing is, even the least expensive tech work for this will run well over $400+.....

IMHO, tell your friend as the sax has a lot of emotional value, do not SELL it, but better to keep it in the family (unless he/she really, really NEEDS $200 very fast). As I said, these are good players with a very unique and beautiful sound....so perhaps someday she can pass it on to someone in the family who wants to play, and have the work done then.....

A teenager playing Grandpa's old Tenor.....these things are much more meaningful than current market values....
 
#6 ·
I appreciate that, sir! The owner says her grandfather bought it in Cleveland in 1935, so that suggests the Voll-True II to her. However, I have blown up the bell picture and I don't see the "II", either. She said she wants $1,800 for it. I'm guessing that ain't gonna happen......
 
#9 ·
Thanks, gentlemen. I know the owner has a high emotional value, since her father played it with local Blues bands in the Cleveland area. Unfortunately, as we know, a 1964 Buick isn't a 1964 Mustang, therefore an old sax isn't a Super 20. Most of the stuff people took to Antiques Roadshow had more "love" value than actual dollars, too....
 
#14 ·
Yes, well....honestly.....I prefer the tone of the VT-II's and early Zephs to the tone of the later Zephs/S20's. They just had a really sweet and unique sound.

It's funny too, whenever I had one around the shop here and someone would come by usually looking at a different sax...they would play one of the VT's and really like it. Although, and I concur, its tone is so unique that it might not serve well as an across-the-board, flexible sorta sax. But for certain kinds of music, they are beautiful....

And they are darn cool.....
 
#15 ·
#23 ·
Bags of wishful thinking for all this sellers who might have read that Kings are desirable horns but have omitted to look at which models are actually desirable.

Besides, the term Voll True is also confusing the less imaginative seller because there is a serious (market and not only that) difference between a Voll True and a Voll True II which are two very different animals one being the last of the old and less desirable Kings and the other being the first of a new and more desirable Kings.

The example for sale by OP’s friend is , in my book, worth very little and personally if I were GIVEN this horn at 0 cost, I wouldn’t know If I would invest the money into make it playable again ( unless I was madly in love with it) because, I am sure, I couldn’t sell it and get back the overhaul money that the average technician would charge me.

Sad but VOLL TRUE!
 
#25 ·
Well...yes and no, insofar as: sad, but not necessarily Voll True.

I mean, just to play an honest Devil's Advocate, King split-bells do not get their due, mostly because of a couple of somewhat cavalier comments posted online years and years ago which somehow, besides having become truncated, have also taken on the shine of truth (was it Stalin who said 'a lie oft repeated becomes truth' ?)

The King split-bell horns are, IMHO, just as good as and no less problematic than any of the other makes of that era.

So, most certainly...a VT or a New VT is NOT a VT-II, because as Milandro says the VT-II was moving towards what would become the Zephyr and Zephyr Specials (although a VT-II is also NOT a middle Zephyr)....BUT that doesn't make a VT worthless.

I would say these can be pretty good players; as I posited, worth maybe $200 as a project horn, $500-600 all done up nicely.

I agree with you there that ~ unless one has a longstanding relationship with a tech (i.e. the tech will work up the sax for a discount), or the buyer is dabbling in sax repair him/herself, or one lucks out and ends up with a project horn which as fate would have it, is not far off from being playable ~ this horn, if brought to a tech for required work, would probably end up taking an investment of a few hundred dollars or more beyond its maximum value, to get into good shape again....and yes, they aren't particularly sought-after in the vintage market....

Eh, folks ask unreasonable Buy Nows on eFlay everyday. The question becomes what sorta offer will she accept ???
 
#34 ·
Talk about no good deed going unpunished.... Early on in this little research adventure, I forwarded all pertinent information (of which there was a LOT -- thanks to everyone... Jaye, donn, et al) to her. It was pretty well established she should anticipate around $250 to $500 for this, then I see the ebay listing for $800. I kept getting updates from her friend here in Austin (who initially asked me for advice) trying to sell me on an enhanced value.

Apparently she has a solid offer that she should take. It's not $800 but it's fair.

Again, THANK YOU EVERYONE for your kind and professional input!!!!

Dave
 
#35 ·
It was pretty well established she should anticipate around $250 to $500 for ...
That's because folks thought it was a tenor due to the thread title. But instead, as it's really an alto as per the e-bay listing, it's more like $150-$200. If anyone is interested in paying more than that, they might actually be convinced it is solid silver as incorrectly advertised. Seriously though, tell your friend they really need to correct that.
 
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