Sax on the Web Forum banner

Is this as good as it looks? HELP

4K views 20 replies 11 participants last post by  The Falcon 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have a son looking to get into playing sax and I'd like to buy a used instrument for him. I've researched in several places, found this article very helpful and have been around on craigslist and through a few other sources. I've come to respect some brands more than others and found a listing for this King 613 on Ebay. From what little I know this looks to be a VERY good deal on a decent quality used student level sax. So far I'm prefering this one above a used Yamaha 23 for about a hundred more than this from a local source. I know King has changed over the years and I don't think I know enough to determine if this King is really worth picking up from this listing, if I should go for the used Yahama or check out some of the used Selmer Bundy's that abound on eBay for under $200? I guess my main question is whether or not this deal is really as good as it looks to me or is this a newer foreign produced horn with King stamped on it that may not be much better than a used Yamaha (other than price).

Any thoughts? (listing expires in a few days)
 
#2 · (Edited)
Here's an old thread about them:- http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?114482-What-s-a-King-Cleveland-613-woth-these-days
This nice one could only raise $122.00 recently:- http://www.ebay.com/itm/King-613-Al...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 whereas the Yamaha YAS-23 regularly sell for at least TWO hundred dollars more than a King 613 eg. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-YAS-...635?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20eaa92b1b (and are likely to retain that price differentiation into the future).
So of the choices you mentioned, my cheap-sax suggestion would still be the Yamaha. Current playing condition should be a major factor too. Techs most likely find 23's more straight forward to work on too, equating to cheaper service costs...
 
#3 ·
I would also recommend the YTS-23 Yamaha. Keeping in mind I live near the Philadelphia area, I always see them on Craigslist for sale (typically for about $400 - $500). At least there you can see it before you buy. You also have a pretty good chance of getting your investment back later.
According to the tech who services my horns they are very durable and the best bet for a student. I just got one for my grandson that he is doing a little work on.
 
#4 ·
After re-reading my post and your answer (thanks BTW) I think I should clarify my question which will also explain better why I posted in this forum rather than the "which sax to buy" area for beginners. Interestingly enough the older forum post you linked was the post I found via internet search that pulled me here to begin with.

The question I have based on that older post and other research I've done is which King 613 is that really? Is it a Cleveland model (discussed in the older post)? Was it likely made at the East Lake plant after they moved? I've also read that you can still buy new King student instruments that are made somewhere else entirely and have Kings name stamped on them; could it be one of those? Most of the info I could find about Kings was about the higher end "vintage" horns so I couldn't find enough info about the 613's to better identify that one. The pics in that listing make it look like it's in rather good shape which makes me wonder if it is a newer model of some sort that's not as related to all the King history I've been reading about.

And I just saw that they removed the link to the eBay listing I'm asking about... I'll try to get some of the pictures on here so you can see what I'm asking about...

I have been reading the "which sax to buy" area for beginners while waiting for replies here and have found a lot of good info.
 
#5 ·
I'd steer clear of ebay unless you are ready for a gamble on what you might have to pay to get the horn in good condition, ie actual good condition as opposed to "ebay good condition" which could mean you might pay several hundred on repairs.

If the local Yamaha is from a reputable source then I'd advise you to go with that.
 
#6 ·
I appreciate all the replies and am still curious about the lineage of the horn from eBay. Seller does offer a return policy so if I find out it will cost me more to fix than to send back I can just do that. He says he had it checked out by a music shop and has good feedback from instruments he sold previously. Here are some pictures.

Brass instrument Automotive lighting Wind instrument Glass Metal
Cosmetics Liquid Tire Font Material property
Musical instrument Automotive lighting Hood Motor vehicle Automotive exterior
Musical instrument Brass instrument Wind instrument Drum Reed instrument


After doing some more reading on here I am starting to lean more toward the Yamaha I can get locally, it's not from a shop but they had it looked at by one and they said it only needs around $50 worth of pads to be in good shape. Even with that the price beats what's on Craigslist in my area. Durability is something I do value and it sounds like Yamaha's have a reputation for that. I am at least still curious about the origin of that horn on eBay (I like research puzzles, sorry).
 
#9 ·
I appreciate all the replies and am still curious about the lineage of the horn from eBay. Seller does offer a return policy so if I find out it will cost me more to fix than to send back I can just do that. He says he had it checked out by a music shop and has good feedback from instruments he sold previously. Here are some pictures.

View attachment 57833 View attachment 57832 View attachment 57834 View attachment 57835

After doing some more reading on here I am starting to lean more toward the Yamaha I can get locally, it's not from a shop but they had it looked at by one and they said it only needs around $50 worth of pads to be in good shape. Even with that the price beats what's on Craigslist in my area. Durability is something I do value and it sounds like Yamaha's have a reputation for that. I am at least still curious about the origin of that horn on eBay (I like research puzzles, sorry).
I would find one that needs nothing. There are plenty out there and you are not depending on the seller's word that it only needs $50 worth of repair. $50 doesn't get you much at a tech
 
#8 ·
#10 ·
+1 on the YAS-23. Those horns are bullet proof. I once had a year long gig in the same club, 6 nights a week, where I played mainly keys but doubled sax. I used that old $250 YAS-23 every night for the whole year and never had a single problem with it, and this was back in the days of smoked-filled nightclubs. Eventually I sold it, for $250.
 
#12 ·
I just started my acquisition of vintage King horns and have recently done some research on them. The era of your horn (called the "clown face" based on the shape of the B/Bb key guard) isn't rated as high as the prior King Cleveland horns. Even if it were one of the older Cleveland horns, I think I would recommend the Yamaha. One of the interesting aspects of the vintage horns is the flexibility/complexity of intonation. That's not a good thing for students. Some of the vintage Kings had King patented keywork that isn't considered "standard" by today's techs. You might get some resistance (or an increased quotation) on a tune-up. Finally, there probably isn't a school band instructor or private teacher who would criticize the Yamaha. Vintage horns, however, are often called inappropriate for students. It's surprising how often people post about this phenomenon. What did the teacher gripe about back in the day?

Mark
 
#17 ·
Thank you all for the help and thanks Mark for the bit of info in that King I found at auction. I think I've pretty well decided to pass that one up. It's risky buying on-line anyway and it sounds like even if the sax is in perfect playable condition on arrival (not likely) that it may not be as easy for him to learn on which is not what I want.

To clarify the info I have from the seller of the Yahama I can quote what she said in the e-mail:
"I have a Yamaha YAS-23 Alto Sax that we have been trying to sell. We had a music store look at it and they indicated it was in good condition but needed some repairs on pads and cleaning - about $40-$50 worth. They said they'd sell something like it in their store for $450. We're asking $300."
I can believe the $450 price from the store; I have encountered several YAS-23's on craigslist (not from dealers) in our area and most are asking $400-$500 which is why the $300 price caught my attention. Unfortunately, I'm not certain I can afford to fork over all $300 this weekend and I think the seller had someone else interested too so we'll see how that pans out.

After some of the comments above I am considering having the seller meet me at a shop with the sax so I can be there to discuss it with a tech myself. MartinMusicMan, no I am not a sax player so I would want an unbiased opinion; I don't have anyone to do this yet but may be able to find a player to go with me.
 
#18 ·
I paid 250 for a 23 here in the SF Bay Area. I took it to one of the best techs in the city and he fixed it up for 150. The 150 price for SF is pretty darn cheap. Most shops are adept a fixing these horns as they come in all the time. The $300 price sounds reasonable even if some repair is required. At least take it to get regulated before he plays it so he's not fighting the horn. This would be true of any horn you get.
 
#20 ·
The money situation worked out OK. The seller has a friend that works at Schmitt Music and he was the one that looked it over and estimated the repair cost. They said they'd just give us time to save up for a few more weeks (which is all that is necessary) and they would actually take it in to Schmitt Music to get it worked on in the mean time. They would add the repair cost to the $300 we're paying for the horn; I intend to ask to see the repair receipt but I'm actually expecting they'll offer to show it to me anyway.

Thanks again for all the help! I really appreciate the feedback as I'm new to this whole thing and didn't want to potentially lose a good deal on a nice sax which I thought that eBay listing might be. If you don't see me posting I'm probably going to spend lots of time on here reading for the foreseeable future.
 
#21 ·
I came back to this thread looking for a link in someone's signature (which I found) and decided to post an update. We picked up the Yamaha for $300, they took it to a music store that has a chain in this area and all they found that they thought it needed was a screw replaced for $7.50. The repair bill was included with the sax sale along with the name of the repair person that looked it over and worked on it in case I wanted to contact them directly. My son has not had lessons yet but was shown how to play it and he's tried it and it sounds good like everything is working fine. Thanks again for all the help!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top