Hey everyone, I have not played my tenor and alto back to back for a very long time. Probably a number of years. Well, I did today and I found something interesting. I sound significantly louder playing alto. I feel like I recall tenor being the louder horn. How does this go for everyone else?
I only posted it in the tenor mouthpiece thread because I wonder if my mouthpiece is not as loud as others? Though, of course, I highly doubt that is the case with my particular mouthpiece.
I don't know for sure which is louder in terms of decibels. To my ear, tenor has a much BIGGER sound, which may or may not mean louder. The alto, being higher-pitched, with a more focused, compact sound, will cut through more. Again I don't know if that means louder or not.
Finally, to me, alto sounds a bit 'wimpy' compared to tenor, but then of course it depends on the player. Bird & Cannonball do not sound wimpy at all!!!!
Louder is relative, but I would say they're even. I can make anyone's ears similarly uncomfortable with either horn regarding volume. That's a function of the player, set up, and, to a lesser degree, the make/model of instrument and how it's set up.
I can make anyone's ears uncomfortable due to my playing too, but that wasn't the question.
Stuart, that is a good idea so I can see if it just appears louder to me or is actually louder. It will also show if there is as significant a difference as I think there is.
I think because of the higher pitch and the proximity to your head that alto may seem louder, but take it from a guy who's always struggling with complaining neighbors...I get less complaints when I play alto than tenor. My ex said that when we owned a house when I played alto it didn't bother her when she was downstairs, but tenor was too much. Maybe JL is right on the "alto seems a bit wimpy" comment
It's worth mentioning lower pitches are harder to dampen than higher pitches. So the walls of your house will stop high pitches easier than lower ones, even if they're the same volume.
I think either instrument could be louder or softer depending on your set up and how you play each one. The alto can definitely cut through in certain situations whereas with the tenor it can totally cover up other instruments. It all depends...
So I did the decibel meter thing. I already had an app on my phone. I tried it from around 3-4 feet away.On both alto and tenor it comes out as 108. But when I push from like MF to FF it is still around 105-108. So I don't feel confident about the meter. I did it again from about 15 feet away with the same result.
So next I recorded both from about 15 feet away. From the recording it is not as obvious a difference as I hear. The alto IS around 10-15% louder according to the sound volume meter that comes up on my video player.
So maybe the alto bell is closer to me and is a higher pitched instrument so it cuts better. I mean, that does make sense, but with the size of the tenor, and my usual feeling that tenors are much louder, this surprises me.
The tenor seems stuffy by comparison. Well, in regards to notes about the instruments possibly needing repairs, both DEFINITELY need repairs. Maybe the tenor just needs more?
So I did the decibel meter thing. I already had an app on my phone. I tried it from around 3-4 feet away.On both alto and tenor it comes out as 108. But when I push from like MF to FF it is still around 105-108. So I don't feel confident about the meter. I did it again from about 15 feet away with the same result.
So next I recorded both from about 15 feet away. From the recording it is not as obvious a difference as I hear. The alto IS around 10-15% louder according to the sound volume meter that comes up on my video player.
108 db sounds high. That a rock band @ 5 feet. There may be a calibration or a different app. There is a noise ordinance issue in my town and pro-outdoor faction hired a consultant who advised them to use the iPad app.
For your other audio test, meters that hold the peak level may be useful but to see the overall amplitude of the wave form, import the file into an audio editor like AUDACITY.
So, this is what I was getting at. They're about the same. I don't think your meter is off.
Setups, players, and horn make/model/condition can certainly change the result, but I know for a fact I can drill holes in walls, make cats run from fights, and make ears bleed with either when required.
Curiously, you didn't mention bari, which by this logic would naturally seem to be louder than either alto or tenor (you can put more air through it), but my experience has been that it too is about the same using similar pieces (Strathons on all three).
Of course, none of this matters when everything is mic'd.
It depends on who's playing it. If it's Maceo Parker, the alto is louder.
However, loudness is a perception that has a component of frequency. Our ears are more sensitive to the midrange, and this is true regardless of the SPL measurement.
Hakukani is right on
loudness perceived is a function freq and level not just level.
thats why old time stereo equipment had loudness counter control
bell labs proved this out many years ago.
but perceived loudness of alto vs tenor can be very much player dependent as well as recording set up, proximity, notes played, etc
no simple answer to anything involving acoustics, instruments and players
Alto is more acoustically perfect for projection with one almost 90 degree curve in the neck whereas tenor has an arch that may lose some efficiency in getting the air through the horn. To me it's always ultimately about the reed. That can change the timbre, resonance and of course volume. That's what loudness is, more volume correct?
Straying off topic here but that's why some players can get just as much sound from a C* as some players with a high baffle piece. I was in a local music store and the manager of the woodwind section was showing off all of his boutique mouthpieces and Florida Links etc. He couldn't believe I could get just as much volume, possibly more, with stock Links as his $1500 mouthpieces.
If everything else is even I believe that alto is the more powerful horn because of the aforementioned efficiency of the neck structure compared to tenor.
The only way to test this is to have a player who is proficient on both alto and tenor and knows how to maximize each horn's potential.
If everything else is even I believe that alto is the more powerful horn because of the aforementioned efficiency of the neck structure compared to tenor.
That's the problem with 'beliefs', they often have no basis in reality. I guess it's also a matter of semantics, though. When you use the term "powerful", well let me tell you the tenor is far and away a more powerful horn than an alto, given a player of equal ability on each! At least by my definition of "powerful." This is one, of many, reasons I prefer to play tenor.
Theres also a difference between direct acoustic loudness and loudness via a mic - a tenor may give off more energy, but the mic will pick up a smaller fraction because the sound is spread over a bigger source than an alto. Usually in gigs you use a mic, tenors seem to consistently need more gain regardless of player.
It’s also worth mentioning that it’s a stupid question with little or no consequence.
Play it as it needs to be played in its circumstances.
Is really not that more complicated.
Arthur Blythe in the same room could make a person cover their ears. But if you were driving up to the house where he was playing, you would hear Bob Stewart on his tuba long before any of the other instruments were audible.
I use the TE Tuner app for general tuning. It has many functions including a dB level meter.
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