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king baritone sax info, value, age? is it worth the 3 hour drive?

9K views 28 replies 13 participants last post by  Stocker 
#1 ·
I have a chance to get a king baritone sax, serial 685xxx
i am viewing it in a week but this is all the info i have on it, and a couple of non descript (useless) pictures shown below, so i want to know is it worth me going 3 hours driving?
i look for age and value $$$ and model if possible , i do know it is working fine and is a low Bb model.

here is a picture the seller sent me
View attachment 56860
 
#2 ·
Is it worth the 3 hour drive? Depends on asking price. And whether or not low A is important to you. For $1000 asking, I'd drive 3 hours for sure. For $5000 asking, no.
 
#3 ·
its an early model as it has the B and Bb keys opposing on the bell...
if it is a king,probably a zephyr and someone misquoted the serial#
ask for photo of bell engraving and serial# to be sure,i would not want to drive that far...
cheers,philip
 
#5 ·
The Zephyr Bari's always had the split bell keys as far as I know, but the Zephyr model stopped at about 511XXX. The Super 20 Bari's had same side bell keys and went into the higher serial numbers (beyond the zephyr). So the info you were given and the picture seem to contradict each other, since no split bell key king bari exists at that high of a serial number. Before making the drive or talking price confirm the info given through better pictures, such as the engraving and serial number like Secondhandsaxes suggests.

(From the pic given, you can tell its a king from the pad cups, so figuring its a zephyr that was misquoted on the serial number, still confirm with the seller)
 
#7 ·
thanks for all the great info folks it is REALLY appreciated, and i have asked the seller to send me better pictures including serial number and the surrounding area, any engraving or writing on bell area, keys, pads, neck (in case of any signs of pull down)
and any dings, if any.
 
#11 ·
That looks like my Zephyr. They're relatively lightweight baris, fun, and loud. Intonation is not a strong point on these horns - they can be pretty wild if you don't tame them.
 
#14 ·
From the split bell keys this would be a Zephyr, not a Super 20. Price depends on what serial number it is since the zephyrs had a long production run (mid 30's to mid 70's), and most people prefer (therefore higher price) the earlier ones before serial number 300XXX (ish). Later one's became more like student/intermediate horns. This pertains more so to the alto and tenor models (the bari didn't change as much) but still had features changed around the same as the alto and tenor counterparts (removal of double socket neck, etc.). Check out the serial number.
 
#15 ·
I have a late model zephyr, serial 4663xx, and I love its sound! Other than no low A, and no articulated G#, which is easily added, it is a great bari with some real power to it! Intonation does take some work, but the sound is worth it.

Here's some pictures of the newer model for comparison.



 
#17 ·
#25 ·
Yes, it is indeed a Zephyr (design) in spite of not being engraved as such, from about 1978. It is not a Cleveland baritone which in all likelihood did not persist past WWII. I think they stopped engraving the Zephyr baritone after they discontinued the alto and tenor.
 
#21 ·
Serial seems correct from latest pics and that places it into the 80's well after quality began to plummet. The appearance seems to be about right as well, that early zephyr split bell design went all the way to the end of the run which wasn't much after this serial number. The matter of the Gilligan's Island three hour tour is all about what you are looking for in a bari! Many of the comments here are accurate with the exception that this late in the game things are probably worse overall then the earlier more primetime models like I have restored from the fifties. In the spectrum of baris I have restored which is quite a few I wasn't overly impressed with these Kings. However, they are pretty solidly built and durable. The sound is OK not great, but not anemic either. They are perhaps a bit more of a blunt instrument then a precise one as some have said above.
 
#23 ·
Yeah, it's definitely not a gem by any means. I probably wouldn't pay more than $500 for that, minus the cost of gas for the drive out & back.
 
#28 ·
Just found this link which looks as though the serial number places this baritone at around 1960-65.
http://www.hnwhite.com/Cleveland instruments.htm
Has what looks like the King Tempo engraving so maybe not a Zephyr after all.
My understanding is that King tempo instruments were a continuation of the Cleveland (student line) of saxophones.
They featured the crown logo like this horn has.
This would explain why no Zephyr engraving, yet still based on the Zephyr design.
Having said that I still don't know really because I thought King Tempo horns were made by Keilwerth but this doesn't look like a Keilwerth made horn to me.
 
#29 ·
A Cleveland baritone, model 616, appears in pre-war catalogs (along with its American Standard counterpart), but I have never seen documentation of one beyond that. Doesn't rule out existence, of course, but I'd call it highly unlikely.

The Baritone Formerly Known As Zephyr was available at least through 1981, probably a bit later. By that time, however, it was simply called "2407", which was the Zephyr's KMI-era catalog number. This would be most accurately described as one of those. It's the same situation as the 2414/2416 which are technically Super 20s that King lost a little bit less money on.

Tempo saxophones were never made in-house. Nearly all were Keilwerth stencils, a few were Amatis.
 
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