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Sonny Stitt - Was he the "Stinkmeaner" of the Saxophone?

14K views 47 replies 31 participants last post by  jgreiner 
#1 ·
I recently received a comment on one of my posts from last summer entitled "Sonny Stitt - "How Many Keys on the Saxophone?" from a well informed gentleman.

In my post, I detailed the experience of my encounter in 1980 with the jazz legend, saxophonist Sonny Stitt, believing, correctly as I found out, that many people who are still around had their own Stitt stories.

It is obvious, according to the comments, that even more than thirty years after his death, Stitt still elicits some strong emotions from folks.

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#3 ·
My former instructor was a student at Berklee in the late 50s/early 60s and he told me stories about going to see Stitt in a club. He and some of his classmates went to talk to him after the show and Stitt told them to f--- off. He also told me stories about going to see Charlie Rouse play and how Charlie had a beer with them and answered all of their questions and seemed to really want to help them out.
 
#5 ·
My former instructor was a student at Berklee in the late 50s/early 60s and he told me stories about going to see Stitt in a club. He and some of his classmates went to talk to him after the show and Stitt told them to f--- off.
I could imagine that someone playing in a club around Berklee, could easily be inundated every night with questions from aspiring musicians. Sometimes, "f--- off" might be the first thing to come to mind when trying to have a lil' personal space while recovering between sets.
 
#4 ·
I've never worshipped at the feet of chops and I don't like lick players, per se, and Sonny Stitt turned me off for many years. But as I get older, I can hear through what I used to consider his BS, and get a core style of his own. The guy could play and he could say something also.

About his drinking, so what? No one played like Dexter, a true musical giant, and the man had more than a passing acquaintance with the bottle.

Regarding his being a Bird clone, yeah, he tended towards that, but I'm reminded of an anecdote that, coming off the bandstand for a break a famous saxophonist was confronted by someone in the audience who, as an insult said, "Man, you sound just like Charlie Parker" and the saxophonist extended his sax towards the confronter and said, "Here. YOU play just like Charlie Parker", LOL.
 
#10 ·
Living near NY & Newark, NJ I had the chance to see him many times. He was usually drunk and acting out. One club had a revolving stage and Sonny sat on the edge with his legs dangling, waving his horn around and yelling "Wheeeeeee". But when he played it was great. In another club I asked him about the Varitone which he was playing and endorsing and he sounded like he really liked it, but I think it was business BS.
When a friend of mine played guitar with Sonny at Fat Tuesday's, Sonny challenged him on every tune by calling hard tunes in hard keys, but my friend kept up with him and that p.......ed him off because the rhythm section was the owner's choice, not Sonny's. He was in a constant state of bugnostity.
Not an easy life so give him some slack. I still like his playing and that's what it's all about.
 
#12 ·
Check out "Au Privave" on Sonny Stitt with the Oscar Peterson Trio. Charlie Parker clone? Maybe not! Stitt was a drunk but Bird was clean? Perhaps both were geniuses with flaws. Study a transcription of Stitt on Eternal Triangle with Sonny Rollins. We can learn a lot about harmonics from both of them. I love listening to Sonny Stitt and Charlie Parker. And I think he was a terrific tenor player, the best of guys who played both a lot.


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#16 ·
A friend of mine who was on the road with Stitt for awhile said he would just start playing a tune, not tell you the name of the tune and it would not necessarily be in the same key you had played it the time before. Obviously you needed to be good.
 
#19 ·
- I knew Sonny Stitt.

To me...Stitt was one of the masters. Kinda like the Marcel Mule of jazz. ( IMHO ) He knew things and COULD PLAY THEM that I never heard others approach. I always marveled at. When he left us...he left with some secrets of the saxophone. Ever watch him use the distance of the saxophone and the microphone? Like mic placement to HIS advantage. JAZZ...Needs more gate keepers like Stitt and Lockjaw Davis.

I'm saying this cuz I knew Sonny , and was around him a lot. Stitt was a task master. There were a few questions
he'd throw at you. Stuff like " How many keys on the saxophone?" Or " what's a whole note? ".....A friend of mine in
Chicago in the 70's told me this stuff. So he starts with me...and said " What's a whole note? " So I answered
him with HIS ANSWER..." It's a circle." Then he said " So you know what a half-note is?" I said a circle with a stem.:mrgreen:
He'd ask you harmony questions...like to really test ya. Things like- " Whats the chord in the 2ed bar of the bridge to Body & Soul ? "
This man..._meant_ business big time. There was no IF OR MAYBE with Stitt.

The first time I heard him was in my hometown, I was in high school. He was doing one of those Varitone clinics for Selmer. It was amazing.
Hearing a guy at that level in 9th grade and 3 feet from your heard. After the clinic he asks if anyone wants to play. I wasn't to sure if it was the time and place for this. But the guy who had the store knew me- and Sonny said come on. So he kicks off a blues in a medium tempo. And tears the stuff up. Hearing him kill it like that, a foot away at that age was THE lesson of life. NOT...in a book and sure as hell not in a University agenda. LOL. Reality 101. At the end of the tune he was cool and shook my hand-heck I was a kid. So in the talking and trying the Varitone I remarked about a mouthpiece he had. He said it was a Brillhardt Level Air hard rubber. Then he said- " Would you like one." He caught me off guard, so in my heasitation he gets a mouthpiece and said try this. It felt tight so he said ok Tim, try this. BOOM...It was great.
So I look at the facing number and said " Oh this is a 7 so it played easier." SONNY LOOKS AT ME...and said " When something is good for you, then you play it." So he said - " Here hope you like it." That mouthpiece I played way into my 2ed year at Berklee.

Years later I ran into him at ART-SHELL in NYC. A great repair spot that Artie Pincus had.
Of course he didn't remember me. No biggie. In talking he sais- stop by the " Village Gate" and play a tune with me.
So I go by- tell the guy on the door that Sonny told me to come by. I had my tenor. ( Ray Hyman pak too. Remember them? )
The guy was being a drag to me, So Sonny caught mre trying to come in and comes over and tears the guy a new one a inch from his face.
That night I got to sit in with Stitt and Bu Pleasants on organ. Later Harold Vick comes by and I met him. It was a nice scene. Vick was on fire. Sonny let me come back as well to play, I was cool about it. But in1973, I just grad from school, and this was something that kept my mojo up and kept me shedding. I was living in the Bronx, alone and this wa way before the net' and to network was hard and money was low. Stitt gave me the confidence to keep on. Another thing I noticed about him- was he was strict. He told me to know the words to the tunes.

Years later in the Maryland Hotel on Rush in Chicago he was on the same floor with me. We'd hang and watch Westerns < Stitt had a camel color top coat...and wore a cowboy hat match it ! > on TV in the afternoon. He told me this scene that Victure Mature was in, about how Victure was going to handle it. LOL. I'd go to the deli across the street and get the soup of the day for him. He was always cool- he'd give me the cash and I'd give him change. He spoke a LOT about knowing basic and was NOT a teacher in a way of today that everyone is teaching something, but let's face it. HE WAS A MAJOR JAZZ STAR.
Face it- his life was SONNY STITT. Jazz artist.

The great drummer - Billy James- played with Stitt over 10 years...Billy told me a great story....Stitt when he first hired Billy
thought Billy was -over playing- !! So, Stitt tells Billy look here - DON' T USE YOUR LEFT HAND , SIT ON YOUR LEFT HAND . Billy
was as a young guy freaked out by this...but knew Stitt had a agenda so he did it. Two weeks later .....Stitt sais...ok use both
hands again....Billy told me the difference was like night and day. The ability Billy had to hear ideas as he heard space AND time
was one of the aspects Stitt was after. As I said many times. Stitt made me learn the lyrics to tunes...and if he knew you well
he would ask ya right at the bar to tell him !! Stitt was a text book .

Another thing Stitt used to kick my butt on was to get back to using a rubber mouthpiece...at that time ( mid 70's ) he had
a mouthpiece by Guy Hawkins...in rubber. Wolf Tayne made them. He seemed to feel articulation, ease of playing on the chops was better.

Jazz will never see another player of this magnitude ever. I'm glad I had the honor of knowing him.

- I knew Sonny Stitt.

To me...Stitt was one of the masters. Kinda like the Marcel Mule of jazz. ( IMHO ) He knew things and COULD PLAY THEM that I never heard others approach. I always marveled at. When he left us...he left with some secrets of the saxophone. Ever watch him use the distance of the saxophone and the microphone? Like mic placement to HIS advantage.

I'm saying this cuz I knew Sonny , and was around him a lot. Stitt was a task master. There were a few questions
he'd throw at you. Stuff like " How many keys on the saxophone?" Or " what's a whole note? ".....A friend of mine in
Chicago in the 70's told me this stuff. So he starts with me...and said " What's a whole note? " So I answered
him with HIS ANSWER..." It's a circle." Then he said " So you know what a half-note is?" I said a circle with a stem.
He'd ask you harmony questions...like to really test ya. Things like- " Whats the chord in the 2ed bar of the bridge to Body & Soul ? "
This man..._meant_ business big time. There was no IF OR MAYBE with Stitt.

The first time I heard him was in my hometown, I was in high school. He was doing one of those Varitone clinics for Selmer. It was amazing.
Hearing a guy at that level in 9th grade and 3 feet from your heard. After the clinic he asks if anyone wants to play. I wasn't to sure if it was the time and place for this. But the guy who had the store knew me- and Sonny said come on. So he kicks off a blues in a medium tempo. And tears the stuff up. Hearing him kill it like that, a foot away at that age was THE lesson of life. NOT...in a book and sure as hell not in a University agenda. LOL. Reality 101. At the end of the tune he was cool and shook my hand-heck I was a kid. So in the talking and trying the Varitone I remarked about a mouthpiece he had. He said it was a Brillhardt Level Air hard rubber. Then he said- " Would you like one." He caught me off guard, so in my heasitation he gets a mouthpiece and said try this. It felt tight so he said ok Tim, try this. BOOM...It was great.
So I look at the facing number and said " Oh this is a 7 so it played easier." SONNY LOOKS AT ME...and said " When something is good for you, then you play it." So he said - " Here hope you like it." That mouthpiece I played way into my 2ed year at Berklee.

Years later I ran into him at ART-SHELL in NYC. A great repair spot that Artie Pincus had.
Of course he didn't remember me. No biggie. In talking he sais- stop by the " Village Gate" and play a tune with me.
So I go by- tell the guy on the door that Sonny told me to come by. I had my tenor. ( Ray Hyman pak too. Remember them? )
The guy was being a drag to me, So Sonny caught mre trying to come in and comes over and tears the guy a new one a inch from his face.
That night I got to sit in with Stitt and Bu Pleasants on organ. Later Harold Vick comes by and I met him. It was a nice scene. Vick was on fire. Sonny let me come back as well to play, I was cool about it. But in1973, I just grad from school, and this was something that kept my mojo up and kept me shedding. I was living in the Bronx, alone and this wa way before the net' and to network was hard and money was low. Stitt gave me the confidence to keep on. Another thing I noticed about him- was he was strict. He told me to know the words to the tunes.

Years later in the Maryland Hotel on Rush in Chicago he was on the same floor with me. We'd hang and watch Westerns < Stitt had a camel color top coat...and wore a cowboy hat match it ! > on TV in the afternoon. He told me this scene that Victure Mature was in, about how Victure was going to handle it. LOL. I'd go to the deli across the street and get the soup of the day for him. He was always cool- he'd give me the cash and I'd give him change. He spoke a LOT about knowing basic and was NOT a teacher in a way of today that everyone is teaching something, but let's face it. HE WAS A MAJOR JAZZ STAR.
Face it- his life was SONNY STITT. Jazz artist.

The great drummer - Billy James- played with Stitt over 10 years...Billy told me a great story....Stitt when he first hired Billy
thought Billy was -over playing- !! So, Stitt tells Billy look here - DON' T USE YOUR LEFT HAND , SIT ON YOUR LEFT HAND . Billy
was as a young guy freaked out by this...but knew Stitt had a agenda so he did it. Two weeks later .....Stitt sais...ok use both
hands again....Billy told me the difference was like night and day. The ability Billy had to hear ideas as he heard space AND time
was one of the aspects Stitt was after. As I said many times. Stitt made me learn the lyrics to tunes...and if he knew you well
he would ask ya right at the bar to tell him !! Stitt was a text book .

Another thing Stitt used to kick my butt on was to get back to using a rubber mouthpiece...at that time ( mid 70's ) he had
a mouthpiece by Guy Hawkins...in rubber. Wolf Tayne made them. He seemed to feel articulation, ease of playing on the chops was better.

Jazz will never see another player of this magnitude ever. I'm glad I had the honor of knowing him.









Stitt on bari ;

 
#20 ·
I met a trombone player named Don who played for a series of outdoor jazz festivals in the 60s with Sonny. The story Don told is that before the first show, Sonny's manager wanted him to meet Don--a young kid at the time--but he couldn't find Sonny. They finally found him sitting underneath the bleachers reading a newspaper. The manager tried to introduce Don to Sonny but Sonny just ignored them. Finally Don started telling Sonny how much he loved his playing and that he had transcribed all of his solos for trombone and could play them all by heart. Without looking up from his paper, Sonny slowly asked Don which album was Stardust on, which album was Body & Soul from, etc., and Don got them all right. At that point Sonny warmed up to him a little, and then they got up and played the gig.

So now they go on the road, and it turns out that Don and Sonny are going to be roommates. Sonny pulls Don aside, and still in a gruff and guarded manner, tells Don, "Alright. So we're going to be roommates. Just wanted to warn you that I carry a shiv." Without missing a beat, Don says, "That's okay. I carry a gun." With that, Sonny breaks into loud laughter and a wide grin, puts his arms around Don and they become best buddies for the rest of the tour.
 
#26 ·
I think Sonny Stitt is awesome, but prefer his alto sound to his tenor sound, although On the Sunny Side of the Street... There's just something about him that puts me in a good mood.
 
#31 ·
This is one of my favourite clips of Sonny Stitt. Sitting in with Gil Evans in 1974. He patiently waits for Dave Sanborn to finish and then proceeds to play beautifully. A lesson in itself. Sanborn starts just after the 27 min mark. It's worth listening to him before Sonny to hear the world of difference in their respective styles. Sonny Stitt was a master, that much is undisputable.
 
#34 ·
The difference between energy and artistry. I will probably get crap from Sanborn lovers but of course he was very young then too. Not saying it's bad or anything, I couldn't do it. It's exciting for a lot of people of course.
 
#35 ·
True story from one of the Boston folks who knew Stitt very well. Sonny came from a family of classical musicians. Boatwright was the original family name. His father was an opera singer and his brother was a very accomplished classical pianist. Once after hearing Stitt's brother play a piece this guy went up to him and told him how a great and wonderful musician he was. Sonny's brother smiled and said "Thank you very much but you should hear my brother play saxophone. He is the genius of the family".
 
#36 ·
True story from one of the Boston folks who knew Stitt very well. Sonny came from a family of classical musicians. Boatwright was the original family name. His father was an opera singer and his brother was a very accomplished classical pianist. Once after hearing Stitt's brother play a piece this guy went up to him and told him how a great and wonderful musician he was. Sonny's brother smiled and said "Thank you very much but you should hear my brother play saxophone. He is the genius of the family".
"Boatner" was the family name . Sonny was "Edward Boatner Jr." before his mother remarried to "Stitt", IIRC .
 
#39 ·
He may have been a 'Stinkmeaner', but what counts for me is the musican. I like his bluesy tenor recordings with Jack McDuff the best:







IMO a player to never forget :).
 
#41 ·
Leo's was a harsh comment if I've ever read one! I can't stand it when people choose to only focus on the negative and ignore the good aspects of somebody.
 
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