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How do we get students to play the correct tempo by ear?

6K views 43 replies 20 participants last post by  aaronrod 
#1 ·
I have students that perform for assessments and esteiddfods and they ALWAYS play too fast (well maybe not always). They are usually kids who want to get it over with and zoooooom through. They are fine in lessons when I guide them but not on their own. Many years ago I saw footage of the Beatles recording A Day In The Life and John Lennon muttered "sugarplum fairy, sugarplum fairy" to get the tempo as he kicked off with piano intro.

Are there any tips for honing a correct tempo by ear? Maybe something kids can use or something in the John Lennon mould maybe?
 
#2 ·
It's an interesting problem that I've never thought about so take whatever I say with a pound of salt. But your post made me think of helping the student to find a phrase for each piece that is the right tempo at practice, like your John Lennon example but each player finds a phrase that works for him/her. When I first read your post, I thought of the tendency that everyone has to play faster in actual performance. I think it's just a function of an amped-up nervous system, call it performance anxiety or simply being stimulated by the pressure of live performance. In the bands I play in, when we practice a tune at one tempo we always say it will be a bit faster when we gig. I think it's kind of built in. It sounds like Lennon had a simple trick to control that. I like it. Maybe it can work for your students.
 
#5 ·
I like MartinMusicMan's idea - I've never done it in a band situation, but I tend to practice slowly on my own because of the tendency to speed up in performance situations.



You may be that gifted, or you just may not have been tested in a situation where you have to keep time yourself. Try recording yourself playing a song, and then try to match a metronome to the recording. You may be surprised at where your tempo ends up - very often what we think we are playing isn't necessarily what's coming out the other end of the horn.
 
#4 ·
There really isn't too much you can do for these kids. No matter what you say, or do, they will still rush through everything to 'just get it over with'. That is unless the adjucator is setting the tempo for each portion of the assessment.
The kids that play faster due to anxiety will be the ones that will benifit from the 'tempo phrase' the most.
 
#11 ·
The less technically prepared people are, the more they rush when they play, especially in faster sections. So perhaps they rush simply because they haven't practiced enough.
 
#14 ·
Lots of professional musicians have a very refined sense of timing, without any counting. Many drummers, they don't all count in numbers in their head. My guitar playing, finally after many years, is like this. I play complicated rhythms on acoustic guitar without click tracks when I record, and so do many other guitar and piano players. I can't speak for others, but I know how I got there .... By playing the drums and a whole lot of metronome use. The drum set (I have an electronic kit), over time, for me over the years, gets the rhythms of music into your system, and the metronome keeps you honest when you try and apply that sense of rhythm to other instruments.

Having said that, I find that there is nothing more difficult than maintaining a good, steady rhythm when playing the sax, solo, without any backing tracks or piano accompaniment. Especially when I'm reading off the page. It's tough.

Some form of rhythm exercise, without the horn, is really helpful. For me, it's the drums, but it can also come from practice clapping out rhythms with your hands, in exercises. Getting the rhythms into your system can help get you away from all the counting. It takes time, though.

For a quick fix for playing too fast ... Try counting BEFORE you start playing, to set your rhythm, just like a band leader would to start off a song ...


Turtle
 
#15 ·
For some reason I remember this from high school: Michael Jackson's "Thriller" is around 120 bpm and so is the Creston Sonata (126 if memory serves), so I would always just get the tempo of Thriller in my head before starting to make sure I didn't rush. I don't see why you could do this with other popular songs of varying tempos that the kids would know.
 
#34 ·
There are a lot of posts about players who are experienced players and can keep time. They have missed the point of my original request for help.

When I send students to a performance or assessment, I don't want the student to play five pieces of contrasting style all at the same tempo. I can't walk on stage with a metronome to get them started. Some tunes have an accompanist which overcomes the tempo 'problem'. But it's the tempo suring solo playing that I'm trying to solve.

The "Thriller" suggestion above is really good. I could work on picking some well know contemporary hits to help students set an appropriate tempo in their head. My older students might even like the task of helping me pick tunes. That sounds like a winner.

So, gathering from this thread, there's nothing except experience for developing an ability to pick an appropriate tempo.
 
#16 ·
Count them off with a metronome. Turn off the metronome when they start playing. When they finish turn, the metronome back on and ask them if they maintained the same tempo.

I do a similar thing with inexperienced singers when I record them and they ask if a take was good. I just play it back to them. We can be our own worst critics and that can be useful sometimes.

Other than that, it's a short attention span world that you're up against. If I want something, I can pretty much get it now. Patience is not a virtue, it's a lost art.
 
#19 ·
I just have a really good sense of timing. I mean i'm not perfect but 90% of the time I do it right. Unless we are doing some Paul Desmond stuff in 5/4 time, then I might mess up for a second and then recover and learn my mistake. Other than that...Yeah i'm just naturally gifted I suppose.
 
#20 ·
#23 ·
The above story proves that point that I've been making for years .... People hear differently. Not everyone hears the same thing going on around them, as it's happening, but then when we all (I'm talking about my garage band, from years ago) sat down to listen to one recording of us on a regular night, two people quit on the spot and never came back. It sounded like a normal, regular night to me and my band mate ... "Yeah, that's what we sound like." No surprise.

But, these two guys were in complete shock (about how bad it sounded). I'm not sure what they were hearing when we were playing ... Something that was a whole lot more pleasing than was actually taking place, I guess. :dontknow:


Turtle
 
#28 ·
A battery powered metronome with a blinking light and sound turned off? It could be placed on a stand where everyone but the "audience" can see it. You may be able to convince the students that it's a cool light show. :)
 
#29 ·
A battery powered metronome with a blinking light and sound turned off? It could be placed on a stand where everyone but the "audience" can see it.
That's how I used it. For a while I even had two metronomes in case there was a quick tempo change I needed to nail...
 
#32 ·
If the song has words, sing the words aloud in your head before starting. If you don't know the words, and the song does have them, LEARN THEM! If the song has no words, make some up to refer back to. Saying a sentence at a wrong speed is more noticeable to the musician who still has to learn that what they are playing is a form of diction as well.
 
#43 ·
Smack them in the ear every time they get out of time. That's how you get students to play the correct tempo by ear.

I think that's my best answer ever...
I'm with you, a good clip behind the ears will sort em out.
Never did me any harm.
But I'm not naturally gifted like some, I just listen to good advise and do my best.
 
#37 ·
Hey Turtle, Sorry, I did read your suggestion and already do what you suggest. But it doesn't stick when the students get up to play and be assessed.

A couple of posts ago I was venting my frustration with the off-topic long arguments about how good some people are and then others wanting proof/disproof. To those people who are trying to get AcidRa1n to prove he is awesome, I refer you to the following quotes that I use all the time:

"Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt" (Robert De Niro from the movie Ronin)
The TRUTH is out there.....but IGNORANCE is much easier to find.
Confidence is what you have when you know you have ability. Arrogance is what you have when you THINK you have ability.

Feel free to use these quotes as much as you like.

Oh and AcidRa1n, don't bother replying to this post unless you have a suggestion to my problem, because I won't be replying to you.
 
#38 ·
Here's a quote: " Don't dwell on the little things, look past them. " I was obviously trolling. Sorry if I broke your heart. I don't care if you reply to me or not, this won't end my life. People take things to seriously these days. Being worried all the time will probably shorten your life. Just go with the flow and be happy.
 
#40 ·
....Are there any tips for honing a correct tempo by ear? Maybe something kids can use or something in the John Lennon mould maybe?
We fight this tendency to rush in our covers band.

The most effective method has been listening to recordings of our gigs, hearing a song that we played too fast, and realizing the faster speed made that song sound worse. So, really wanting the tempo to be (properly) slower seems to be a necessary first step.
 
#42 ·
I haven't been AcidRa1n's age yet. Little known is that my real name is Benjamin Button.
 
#44 ·
izitulez, have your students (particularly the 'fast' ones) recorded themselves? Given that everyone over the age of 5 seems to have a smartphone, the mic built into the phone provides a quick and easy way to do it.

This way, they could get feedback on the tempo of a song immediately after they play it - they should be able to tell if they played it too fast. You could even try it in a lesson - if they can't tell that they played it too fast even after they have listened to the recording, then you know they need to spend more time getting to know the song and learn how it is supposed to sound, rather than it purely being a tempo issue.
 
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