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Super 20 neck question

4K views 19 replies 12 participants last post by  zootspiker 
#1 ·
I have noticed that whenever someone here on SOTW considers a Super 20 acquisition they are cautioned to "make sure it has a good neck" or something to that effect. Why? What is the deal on these Super 20 necks? Are they more subject to pulldown than on a vintage Selmer, for example? Also, what does one look for? How does one know if the neck is okay? There is rarely an opportunity to play several Super 20 tenors side by side for comparison. I'm asking because I am interested in one at PM Woodwind, which looks good, but it has been there a long time a fairly reasonable price and I'm wondering why no one has purchased it.
 
#2 ·
with “ good” possibly one refers to something else, when talking about Super 20’s, that the quality of the neck (yes, all saxophones should be bought with a good neck, but you are right what does it mean and how does one tell a good from a a bad neck) bur one with an underslung neck ( Cleveland or Eastlake) rather than the later series, or USA, with a over-slung neck.

Other than that it is a matter of preference. Some prefer older double socketed Super 20’s. I am very happy with my single socket Eastlake.

Super 20 necks don’t bend anymore than any other saxophone do.
 
#3 ·
Silver is a relatively soft metal, and as such, the neck is more prone to damage (including pull down) than brass. If you tend to place a lot of downward pressure on your mouthpiece during play, you can even visually notice the neck flexing as you play!

Having said that, I have a 1950's Silversonic with a neck that has sustained much damage over its lifetime - and has been repaired, including a patch on the side - yet still plays great.
 
#4 ·
Apparently, silver isn't inherently soft. Even 92.5%, which seemingly is max, silver is an alloy and it seems the way it is molded impact its strength. There is a statement to this effect on Brendan Tibbs' site; "crystal alignment" - somewhat tangible even for non-metallurgists. I have heard the same from others.

Not sure that it necessarily applies to Super 20 necks, but they appear to me about as sturdy or rather frail as most other vintage saxophone brand necks.
 
#5 ·
as brasscane knows I’ve had three different necks on my Super 20, all different : two original King necks, one brass, one silver (925) one Gloger thick solid silver (999 solid silver that is!) .

None of these necks were ever softer or prone to bending, but I don’t mistreat necks anyway.........I am not aware that super 20 necks bend any easier than any other neck, let’s not start yet another unmotivated rumour in the world of saxophones!

A lot of patches on the side were there to cover a pick up for the King octavoice system
 
#8 ·
All good points; didn't mean to offer my POV as an absolute truth, just my limited experience with the 5 or so Super 20s that I've played. I think what Ive encountered probably has to do with the underslung neck design as well. I have a good friend who is a monster player and owns a Super 20 - he has had the same experience with his neck as well. Of course they're all different, and everyone will have different results. I wouldn't have touched my S20 with a ten-foot pole based on its appearance alone, but when I tried it I was blown away. I got it for a steal b/c it has had so many repairs done to it over the years - and it shows!
 
#9 ·
I think part of the reason is that if you buy a Super 20 and it does have a neck problem it's much more difficult to find a replacement than it is for a Selmer, Yamaha or Yanagisawa. Nobody apart from gloger makes a new replacement Super 20 neck, and that's nearly $1000 and many months wait. You can watch ebay for months on end and only occasionally see a super 20 neck come up. Contrast with Selmer where it seems everyone and his brother will sell you a Mark VI replacement neck, and yamaha/yanagisawa where you can buy a new neck from WWBW for a couple of hundred dollars.

So I think it's just down to the difficulty in obtaining a replacement should there be any neck damage.



Now to answer why the S20 at PM woodwind has not sold .... what's the price and the serial number ? S20 prices are very very closely tied to serial number and condition. A mint full pearls double socket neck can approach $6k. An early eastlake players' horn might be $2k and a late 70s player's horn might go for under $1500.
 
#10 ·
Thank you for your replies. I certainly do not intend to start any rumors about the quality of Super 20 necks. I posted this because I have little experience with the Super 20 and am considering adding another tenor. Your answers to my inquiry are reassuring.
 
#11 ·
thank you for your replies. I certainly do not intend to start any rumors about the quality of super 20 necks. I posted this because i have little experience with the super 20 and am considering adding another tenor...
The following is a subliminal message for Leon's eyes only...

Top Hat & Cane... Top Hat & Cane... Top Hat & Cane...
 
#14 ·
Got it, George. Are you selling one?
No, I have one getting set up on a bench in the southern hemisphere.

I think the TH&C might be rather similar to the Borg - though it has been a long time since I have played one. By the way, did you write this in disappearing ink or what?
If you're going to go down the vintage American tenor path, I'd certainly include the classic Bueschers in the quest. I had both a Big B and a Super 400 at the same time (last year) and opted to keep the Super 400 and have it overhauled. The Big B was a fine voice as well - just depends on what voice you're looking to add to the ol' tenor quiver.

Disappearing ink? Why would you think that?
 
#13 ·
Quite honestly...if one has a hankerin' for an S20, and the wallet for one....I always would recommend going for it. Like any purchase, the importance is in the horn being in good shape where it counts...be it neck, body tube, bow, holes, mechanisms, whatever.

There are a number of legendary models out there by different mfr's, and their reputation is for good reason.... the S20 is really one which someone should experience.

I don't care what era they are...even the late 24XX models are quite good.....they are really special horns. The blowing response is superlative on every one I have ever played or refurbed. The neck spec on the Eastlakes changed a bit which brightened the tone just a tad, and the keywork specs also changed a bit over time so folks have their faves and not faves....but they are really fantastic horns.
 
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