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What's wrong with Zephyr Baris?

6K views 22 replies 15 participants last post by  Too many 
#1 ·
Two Zephyr Baris have gone for days on Ebay without a single bid. Is the market for Zephyrs that bad? I have one that I am thinking of selling, but not if there is no market. Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Nothing at all...as a matter of fact, IMHO.....I would rather have a Zeph Bari than a 12M any day.....less intonational quirks; and to me, they just feel more responsive under the fingers.

And they have tons of cojones...as big a sound as any vintage Baritone can produce.

I think it is a subconscious thing: people see the split-bell keys and there is this assumption that the horn is somehow anachronistic and not practical.

But King kept the split-bell key bellpiece all the way up until the mid '70's, I believe.

They are good horns....real sleepers. I often tell folks that if they have an inkling to grab one, confirm it is set up to play well...and go for it. They can be real bargains.

But you are correct, they are going for only around 60% of what they could fetch 4 or 5 years ago.....
 
#5 ·
But King kept the split-bell key bellpiece all the way up until the mid '70's, I believe.
I've seen sales materials showing they went at least to 1981, although by then they were just calling it the "2407". It was probably available until '83-'84 when King sax production was shut down for good. (I've never seen one later than '77, for what it's worth - although I did stumble across a single reference to an extant "King 2407 USA" on a German website so it seems they did make at least one of them.)

The split bell keys probably weren't doing them much of a favor when they were new either.
 
#6 ·
I had a Z bari in the 60s. I paid $35 at army surplus in like new condition. I bought a Mark VI bari about 4 years later and sold the Z. BIG MISTAKE! These are boomy fat sounding horns that project even with the old tubby mouthpieces. The only downside is sometimes it is hard to find a case to fit the large bell and the neck fitting can be difficult to get snug. Most have the neck octave key repaired as they are soft metal and break if not handled well. Pick one up while they are cheap but avoid old school horns. Make sure the neck is not missing, hard to find.
 
#7 ·
So there you go - don't sell it, or you'll be sorry!

I don't think Zephyr is a big name among bari players in general. Those non-herd-followers who go to the trouble to read up on it will see "student" or "intermediate" grades, or "Voll-True with a new name". I don't know if HN White made a lot of money at the time by marketing Zephyr and Super 20 lines concurrently, but generations later within a fairly small community of owners, it has sure fostered some mythology that continues to make the Zephyr a pretty good deal, as long as it isn't one that's agreed to be a Super-20-alike tenor. So the bari is better for playing than for selling, but if you don't play it, might as well go ahead and sell - I can't imagine it's going to be "discovered" later like the late model Zephyr tenor, as that would simply step all over the established conventions about the lineage.
 
#8 ·
Very true..actually when you think about it, not even S20 Baritones sell for all that much when they come up.

I think it's just an instance where you had Mulligan and Carney playing Conn and Pepper Adams playing a selmer...so King was always off the BigHorn radar.

Silly, really....but I think people make those sort of associations.....
 
#9 ·
..actually when you think about it, not even S20 Baritones sell for all that much when they come up.
They should bring a little more, according to my theory, reflecting the influence of the "intermediate" vs "professional" story. If you go to the saxontheweb/saxpics tradition, though, in order to discover the kind of greatness as in the Super 20 tenor, the Super 20 baritone would have to be shown to have undergone a similar major evolutionary step that distinguishes it from the Voll-True bari. (And you'd need a modest contingent of Super 20 bari owners to promote this discovery, but unfortunately I don't think all that many were ever made?)
 
#14 ·
:scratch:Nothing is wrong with Zephyr Bari's. I have a late Cleveland ser# 358xxx with lacquered keys and body plus the double socket neck that I purchased about 6 years ago. It was overhauled and relacquered with 2 small errors on the clearcoat which brought the price down. The Zeph put my French-made Olds Parisienne to shame. The French design horn sounded weak and timid next to the Zeph.
I use a Rico Royal Metalite M7 on it and the horn just roars. It plays just as easily in the top end as the bottom. The dealer who sold it said nobody wanted it because it didn't go down to low A. What's one note anyway? I put the mouthpiece on it and was smitten by the power it delivered and the big fat tone. I had to have it. That huge bell gives it a huge sound which I love. I call it "The Howitzer".
Yes, it is odd looking and maybe anachronistic with the split bell keys but I love it.

As far as E-bay is concerned, it is hard to find good clean examples on E-bay. Most of the ones I have seen are trashed and the dealer restored ones were overpriced. Everyone knows that baris are very expensive to overhaul and especially costly to have dent work done but I would expect that one could be found may not be pretty but is in decent playing condition with maybe a few minor dings for around $900 - $1200 range.:tongue8:
 
#16 ·
Nothing is wrong with Zephyr Bari's; if you get the right mouthpiece it has very little intonational quirks and blows any barisax (low b and a) away- i still have my 1936 Z and after two overhauls in the last 12 years it goes anywhere!(just for low a and lazyness i play the 992) but for sound the Zephyr is the Barisax
 
#17 ·
my college marching band has 2 Antiguas, 1 JK ST90, and a '42 Zephyr. Everyone scrambles to the Antiguas and JK and call the Zephyr an "old sewer pipe", if just they knew what they were missing. I play that Zephyr everytime I can get my hands on it!
 
#20 ·
The tricky octave mechanism made me get rid of my Zephyr, but that was before I had found my tech :)
 
#21 ·
Hello!
hope you don't mind if I hijack this slightly, I have a question about a King bari too...
I'm looking into a buying a vintage bari and there's a nice looking Zephyr which caught my eye. The serial number is 298xxx and I saw somewhere online that the super 20 started after serial number 272xxx. Does this mean the zephyr became a super 20? or that they started producing super 20s but carried on making Zephyrs as well? slightly confused...
Would appreciate some advice, thanks!!
 
#23 ·
I have played one for 10+ years, like the sound better than either the Selmer, Couf or Conn I once had. But- when playing sitting down the long rods and opposed tone hole are a major aggrevation, . Holding it at a certain angle helps but gets tiring. Still a great sound. I use either a SR tech metal or RPC (with baffle). Both 110, work fine.
 
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