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  1. #181
    Karzkin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    I'm partial to Dexter. A fan of Sonny Rollins too.

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenor Man View Post
    Arnett was great, and definitely in my Top 10 for Tone, along with fellow Texas T-Man Booker Ervin. And that's a priceless vid though it would be cool to see something with him from the 40s or 50s.

    Getting back to Wardell, though there is at least one extant video of him from the 1950s Basie Band, this is the clip that to me really displays his power on the tenor (a King Super 20 in this case). Like someone in the comments said...pure but strong, and his and his alone:
    Arnett played on this video of 1979 a Florida Otto Link, I think with a tip of around 9 or 9*. In the 40's he used an Otto Link Tone Master (don't know the tip, but smaller then the Florida Link). Still his sound of the fourties is even fuller and darker, I guess because of the other Link and maybe also because of the other recording technology. I did never see a video of that area, but check his recordings with Lionel Hampton of that period (1942-47).

    Nice video of Wardell also. He's a great player and died much too young, but sound wise I like Dexter (his battle partner in the fourties) more. I think Wardell played a high baffle Dukoff with a small tip, which makes him in my ears a bit sharp and thin in the higher register. But still a fantastic player ofcourse, no doubt about that.

    T : Selmer SBA serial 50xxx (1952) - Otto Link Florida no USA 10* - La Voz medium
    A : Klingsor serial 016xx (early 60's) - Otto Link STM 9* - Rico Royal 2.5
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  3. #183
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by afrothunder View Post

    Coltrane
    Archie Shepp
    Pharoah Sanders
    Albert Ayler
    While I would say all the great players had at least a very good tone, including the ones quoted above, for 'all-time best tenor tone,' none of them would be anywhere near the top of my list, in terms of tone alone. I really dig Pharoah Sanders and have seen him live many times over the years, but not so much for his tone; rather for his overall sound and approach.

    If I had to name just one (and I really can't do that!) for tone quality, it would be Dexter Gordon. Or Gene Ammons. I know, that's two.

  4. #184
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    I think they are all the best tenor tone individually since really no two are alike and i already mentioned quite a few.
    I am still diggin' John Gilmore and one of his inspirations was Wardell Gray so you see every great tenor player does influence the next generation.
    Two more Gary Windo, Antoine Roney, and whats his name from the N.O.L.A. Astral project who jammed with Tim Price and played with Carla Bley bands who also demo'd a Steve Goodson $15,000 tenor and kills everytime he touches that damn horn... that guy!

  5. #185
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Dexter

  6. #186
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    all-time best tenor tone is wayy too subjective... All mentioned are phenomenal. If you're looking for a damn good tenor sound out of an amateur, ask Martysax if he'll post a recording or two. It's downright incredible. rock and roll esque, not smooth jazzy

    Pros, Dexter, Rollins, and the main man, the BIG man, the he man beast, CLAAAAAARENCE CLEMONS!

  7. #187
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    To me it's very style dependent as I like a lot of sax sounds: Stan "The Man" Taylor had a great sound for his style of playing. I also like Pete Christlieb (like his tasteful solo on Unforgettable)
    Also Lucky Thompson had a great sound but hard to find a high quality recording that really captures it. I could go on and on. But Dex, Stanley Mr. T and Arnett are way up there for me as for many others as mentioned above. Also like Getz's sound mostly for his ballad and bosa playing.

  8. #188

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Mickey Fields

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Charlie Ventura, Jimmy Giuffre ( He wrote 4 Brothers for the Woody Herman Herd), Christlieb, Lew Tabackin, Coleman, Dexter, Mobley and on and on. How to pick just one. I have an old Charlie Ventura album on which he plays soprano, alto, tenor, baritone and bass and swings hard on all of them. Great big tenor sound. Its on a 33 1/3 vinyl disc - anybody remember those?

    Its equally hard to pick least favorite - for me, the reedy Mr.Getz, then the I don't know what sound is next, Coltrane.

  10. #190
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Chris Potter
    "Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself." •Miles Davis
    “Always be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of somebody else.” •Judy Garland

    www.stevenbollman.com

  11. #191
    Distinguished SOTW Member Jazz House's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Jerry bergozi, sonny Rollins, Rex, bob mintzer, Ernie watts
    Soprano: Jean Baptiste Deluxe Curved Soprano, Bari Gold #8,#3S | Alto: Conn 28M Connstellation, Meyer 7m, #3S RJS | Tenor: Conn 10M Naked Lady, Mark Spencer/FL t350SP, #2H RJS
    Index of Common Questions!!!

  12. #192
    Distinguished SOTW Member piwikiwi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    I don't really care about the all time best but my favorites are Zoot Sims, Scott Hamilton, Sonny Rollins, Chu Berry, Gene Ammons & Dexter Gordon

  13. #193
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    hank mobley

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpeebee View Post
    Arnett played on this video of 1979 a Florida Otto Link, I think with a tip of around 9 or 9*. In the 40's he used an Otto Link Tone Master (don't know the tip, but smaller then the Florida Link). Still his sound of the fourties is even fuller and darker, I guess because of the other Link and maybe also because of the other recording technology. I did never see a video of that area, but check his recordings with Lionel Hampton of that period (1942-47).

    Nice video of Wardell also. He's a great player and died much too young, but sound wise I like Dexter (his battle partner in the fourties) more. I think Wardell played a high baffle Dukoff with a small tip, which makes him in my ears a bit sharp and thin in the higher register. But still a fantastic player ofcourse, no doubt about that.
    Can you cite some instances in tunes in which Wardell plays sharp? In other words, can you show it's a pattern rather than just an isolated incident or two? Because I'm not hearing it.

    Also, if we remove tone from the equation, it's not really fair IMO to compare Wardell to Arnett because the former is a true Jazz giant who was an important and necessary link in the Bebop time line and influenced so many who came after him.

    Arnett is a great player who had a lot of influence to be sure, but I tend to think of him more as yet another great R&B/soul jazz player in the Illinois Jacquet/Jimmy Forrest vein who, like those two greats, played more simplistic R&B-laced jazz that was less hardcore than the Jazz that Wardell and his buddy Hampton Hawes were laying down--and with a regular R&B growl in his tone--kind of like Earl Bostic on the alto.

    But again, when you're talking tone only and not jazz history, Arnett was really one of the special ones.

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpeebee View Post
    I think Wardell played a high baffle Dukoff with a small tip, which makes him in my ears a bit sharp and thin in the higher register. But still a fantastic player ofcourse, no doubt about that.
    I'm pretty sure Wardell never played a Dukoff. Pictures show him playing both master link and tone master otto links and also metal berg larsen.

  16. #196

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flâneur View Post
    Chris Potter
    Yeah, I'll second the Chris Potter thing! But I like his voicing, rhythm and solos better than just his lone tone.

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by saxjd View Post
    I have always liked Jay Corre's sound.
    Great tenor sound!

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Sound wise my favorites are Stan Getz, and Dexter Gordan. I especially like Getz. The colors he could get out of his horn were phenomenal.

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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Fantastic Zoot pic.....peace

  20. #200
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    Default Re: Who has the all-time best Tenor Tone?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenor Man View Post
    Can you cite some instances in tunes in which Wardell plays sharp? In other words, can you show it's a pattern rather than just an isolated incident or two? Because I'm not hearing it.

    Also, if we remove tone from the equation, it's not really fair IMO to compare Wardell to Arnett because the former is a true Jazz giant who was an important and necessary link in the Bebop time line and influenced so many who came after him.

    Arnett is a great player who had a lot of influence to be sure, but I tend to think of him more as yet another great R&B/soul jazz player in the Illinois Jacquet/Jimmy Forrest vein who, like those two greats, played more simplistic R&B-laced jazz that was less hardcore than the Jazz that Wardell and his buddy Hampton Hawes were laying down--and with a regular R&B growl in his tone--kind of like Earl Bostic on the alto.

    But again, when you're talking tone only and not jazz history, Arnett was really one of the special ones.
    Hi again. I can try to make it more clear with some examples. Listened just before making my remarks to your Wardell YouTube link above and also had just listened in my car to the well know "The Chase" and "The Steeple Chase" recordings with Dexter from Feb-1952. On all those recordings I found Wardell's tone thinner and sharper then Arnett, and also in the battle tunes he sounds to me thinner then Dexter. And Dexter was (IMO) not sounding so well on this recordings, when you compare them to his earliest recordings with Harry Edison around 1944 and his later work in US and Europe. Just checked at home some other recordings of Wardell (like "Farmer's Market" and "Jackie" with Art Farmer from Jan-1952), where he indeed sounds much much fuller then on above mentioned examples. I tried to find some evidence on his mouthpiece, but can't find it. Found this statement on Pepper Adams site mentioning that Wardell played a Berg, see summer 1948 in this link (http://www.pepperadams.com/Chronology/EarlyYears.html). Could be that Dexter played a Dukoff some time, maybe I mixed that up.

    I have to correct you on Arnett: actually I think his influence was very big. Jacquet (also one of my hero's) played alto besides Arnett (on tenor) in Milt Larkins band. Arnett is also a bit older, so it's more realistic that Arnett influenced Jacquet then the other way around. Arnett was influenced mainly by Joe Thomas from the Jimmy Lunceford band. Jacquet was influenced by Arnett, Herschell Evans and the old Press (you can here that in his early solo's). Actually I red on a CD text that Arnett was asked to replace Herschell Evans in the Basie band in 1939, but he refuced (Buddy Tate accepted the offer after Arnett refuced). He also refuced an offer from Lionel Hampton in 1942 and Jacquet went in his place, switching from alto to tenor (Lionel needed a tenor). Earl Bostic played alto in the Hampton band of 1944 and was very much influenced by Arnett Cobb, who replaced Jacquet in 1944. Cobb was the leader of the sax section (straw boss) and also made some of the arrangements of the sax section. Also influenced by Cobb was Johnny Griffin, playing second tenor at Hampton's band and later baritone in the small group of Arnett in the late fourties, after he left Hampton. I remember Griffin saying during a concert in 1984 (with Arnett and Lockjaw Davis, one of the best concerts I have ever seen!!!) that Arnett was the real boss in the fourties. What I read (and can hear) is that Arnett was a mature swing tenor player, who influenced lots of people (also Benny Golson) and can even be seen as one of the originators of R&B and R&R saxophone, besides other great tenor players ofcourse. I guess the influence of Wardell was much smaller.

    Indeed you can't really compare technical complexity of Bop and Swing style playing, because Bop is much and much more demanding (actually Arnett also played some Bop lines in some of his old solo's of the late fourties, check for instance "Arnett Blows For 1300"). But the topic of your thread was about tone and not about technics.

    To summarize: I think Arnett and Wardell are both fantastic players who played there role in Jazz History, both with great technic and great sound!

    T : Selmer SBA serial 50xxx (1952) - Otto Link Florida no USA 10* - La Voz medium
    A : Klingsor serial 016xx (early 60's) - Otto Link STM 9* - Rico Royal 2.5
    SoundClick | YouTube | SOTW Blues (Round 8) | Mouthpiece Pictures

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