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Begining Student With Vintage Horn

3K views 13 replies 10 participants last post by  Chulove 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,
How do educators feel about a beginning student using an older horn? I am asking because I have a 14 year old niece who is interested in playing alto. I have a 1952 Martin Indiana I purchased from eBay a few weeks ago. I am thinking of giving it to her, but I remember way back when I was taking lessons with a 1920's Wurlitzer (a Beuscher stencil), my teacher spent part of every lesson telling me I needed a modern horn. After 6 months I ended up selling the Wurlitzer and purchasing a used Selmer Series II.

The Martin Indiana alto has a nice big sound. It was probably not out of it's case since 1960. I initially purchased it for myself as a second horn to play on when I do not feel like dragging out the bari sax. The pads are original but they all seal and I figure they can be replaced as needed. The mouthpiece cork has been replaced and the action has been set up, so the horn is in pretty good condition. It has the old school left hand pinky cluster, not the articulated setup found on more modern horns.
Any opinions?

Marty
 
#2 ·
In my opinion, the 52 Martin alto should be all right, indeed. I would be watchful of all pads sealing after it's been played for a while.
 
#3 ·
I have a Martin Indiana alto of similar vintage. Sweet little horn. I think it sounds better than the Series II played by one of my Community Band members. Bigger, richer, more 'color' if you would.
From my experience I don't find the left hand pinkey cluster that hard to get around on. I have 'average' size hands.
Two of my daughters have 'small' hands and they have no issues with it either.
What it really boils down to is.... Is her teacher a 'Modern Sax Snob' and does your neice want to play a vintage horn.
I would say have a talk with her and her parents. Let her give it a trial. If they both find it to be a suitable instrument then let her have it.

Personally I think band directors and private teachers have no business telling a student what they 'should' be playing unless the instrument is so poorly made that it cannot be played in tune with anything including itself.
 
#4 ·
My opinion is that a student can learn on any horn they desire as long as it is in good working order. Even an 1800's European deal with double octave keys. I have been playing roughly 1.5 years now and learned on a 1920 Conn C-Melody. I disagree with your former teachers sentiments, I say play whatever horn speaks best to you and whatever horn you like most.

Having an appreciation for the vintage horn itself and its history can really help motivate the student to learn to play that particular horn well, an channel some of that history through their playing. It helps keep motivation up when you consider that someone who is long dead was playing your horn 90 years ago, and wondering what they might have played on it.


In my opinion, modern articulated keywork is only marginally better than vintage setups that were still designed and played by human hands for many decades, and learning on the vintage keys makes playing a modern horn seem like cheating. Woodwind manufacture is not really rocket science (though luthiers and violin makers are magicians). I came out at an advantage to many of my peers who began learning at the same time I did, in that I can easily play their modern horns, but they cannot play my ol' Conn for the life of them.

The most important thing is to make sure it is adjusted well and none of the pads are leaking.
 
#6 ·
Thanks for the input bandmommy. She does not have a teacher yet, but she has expressed interest in playing. Yes, the horn just sounds big. I have read about the "Martin Sound" and this horn has it. My concern is, due to my own experience, is that a current teacher may claim the horn will hold her back because it is older. So far the responses I received are all positive. Thanks,
Marty
(I am going to surf eBay to find another one if this all works out.)
 
#8 ·
The contrary is that she may get a teacher that has an affinity for vintage horns. If she likes it give it to her. If she does not like ask her preference as a beginner. She may have multiple teachers over time, each with their own view points.
 
#9 ·
It's easy for a teacher to be a "modern sax snob" (Bandmommy's words) if the horn is not working well. Get it checked out for leaks and proper adjustment and it will stand a better chance. Many teachers likely don't want the horn to be an excuse and have had too many experiences with horns in poor repair.

Thanks for caring.
 
#10 ·
The good thing about starting on vintage saxes is that you don't miss modern ergos if you never had them. Modern horns feel as weird to me as I'm sure vintage ergos feel to modern players. I have no problem switching, but many modern-type players I know can't handle vintage ergos. I guess it's like learning to drive a stick shift before an automatic. It's great to know how to use both.
 
#11 ·
Intonation is one issue- unless the kid has a really good ear then I'd want the sax with the best intonation possible. Ideally they should be able to sing something and hear it in their head before playing it. If they are using the notes from the sax as a reference, without hearing them first, then a horn with poor intonation would not be as beneficial for their musicianship.

Some horns don't play as well in tune when the airstream is not well supported. Chances are, a beginner will not be supporting the airstream as much as they should.

I say all this, because when a kid I was a clarinet player first, and then I got The Martin alto. I would have been much better off with a Yamaha student model, or something similar.
 
#12 ·
Thanks all for the good advice and insight. I will have the horn rechecked by a tech before I give it to her. I played it yesterday with a tuner and the palm key notes did require some extra lipping to pull the notes in tune. I will spend some more time with the horn to make sure I'm confident it will work out.
Marty
 
#13 ·
Pardon the language, but my Martin Indiana has damned good intonation.
Granted I am a clarinetist, but as far as 'vintage' altos go the Indiana is one of the best out there.
 
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