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Thread: New to Tenor problem

  1. #1

    Default New to Tenor problem

    Here is my setup
    Don't laugh but I didn't have the money for a great classic
    so I bought a rose brass Venus Tenor
    and its actually not a bad build pretty sturdy
    anyway I love the sound that Milton has so I got a Berg Larson 110/0
    couldn't wait for a 105 anyways. I have pretty good intonation throughout
    the horn at medium to high volume but when I play soft the high notes
    anything above the high C goes sharp(20-40). What could be happening?
    Also with Rico reeds the intonation was good up to palms then they went sharp
    so I got a Fibercell which changed everything I took all the crescents out
    and all was working well till I noticed when I played soft the intonation was
    off on the high keys any suggestions or do I just need to practice more long tones and less reed and more air and more channel air flow?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    sounds as if you may be biting or tightening up your embouchure as you go higher in the range of the horn. Continue to work on airstream development and control and be aware of embouchure control...relax
    "there are two means of refuge from the misery of life-music and cats," Dr. Albert Schweitzer

  3. #3
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009 MyMartinTenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    I agree with Thomas, particularly since you find that reeds are making a difference in intonation (which is not typical), it probably means you're biting at the high notes.

    BUT, its also possible that the vent heights on the palm keys is too high. Do the pads come high up off the hole when you press the palm keys? Try an experiment. Play a D3 (palm key D). Now, try it again, but very very slowly open the key. At first, the note won't sound. Then it'll sound ok with a little bit more space, but maybe be flat. Then it'll sound fine. Then it MAY go sharp before the key is totally pressed. If there's a height where the note plays fine and is in tune and the key is not all the way open, you can have a tech add a little extra cork and stop the key at that point. Sometimes that helps tuning, very simple to do. Very very common that palm keys open wider than they should.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    Definitely sounds like biting.

    This is a more common phenomenon when switching from one horn to the other. Tenor is a very relaxed embouchure.

    I even Bite a bit to get out my high F# but because it doesn't vent very much the pitch is relatively good.

    Altissimo you pretty much have to bite a little bit.
    (\__/)All Tenor all the Time, Amati Kraslice ATS-61 Custom Unlacquered key work.
    (0.o ) CE Winds Legend Rollover .108, FL Ultimate lig, RJS 3s
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  5. #5

    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    That the intonation changes depending on the sound volume is pretty normal on a horn.
    But sometimes a mpc can mess up the intonation of certain notes and areas of the horn.
    Sometimes changing the keyheights can really help as MyMartinTenor said (it also could cause new problems).
    Is the same problem happening with another mpc (with the same tip opening)? Another player? Another horn? How experienced are you as a tenor player?

  6. #6

    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    I'm new to tenor so maybe I have some learnin and practice to do
    The Rico mouthpiece was boring and the Metalite just sounded
    too plastic so I switched to the Berg which can peel paint if
    I can just get it under control its my first metal piece and I'm lovin it
    With the Rico's my palm keys were really sharp so I put crescents in
    then when I switched to the berg I had the same problem so I ordered
    a Fibercell reed and it seems to have flattened the palms so I removed
    the crescents. I never knew reeds could be so inconsistent.
    The Fibercell sounds less bright but it has the best intonation quality
    can reeds make that much of a difference in pitch

  7. #7
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    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    are you really staying in the same strength range here?

    I recently made a thread about the affect of switching up a strength in my RJS's with a rather strong/ positive result

    http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthr...a-strength-RJS
    (\__/)All Tenor all the Time, Amati Kraslice ATS-61 Custom Unlacquered key work.
    (0.o ) CE Winds Legend Rollover .108, FL Ultimate lig, RJS 3s
    (> < ) www.youtube.com/seanwintersax www.soundclick.com/seanwinterJAZZ

  8. #8

    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    I like fibercells but cannot use them because they play flat in the palm keys for me. I just cannot "lip up" high enough and still get a decent tone in pitch up high with them. Other than that I would like them. The Legere Signature doesn't have that problem. They are less bright also but play more like a normal reed to me.

  9. #9

    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    alright its definately me fighting the mouthpiece, if I take all of it the sound is just squeaks & noise
    funny if I put the rico graphonite on I can take it all and keep the pitch good watching the tuner
    I can keep the pitch on the Berg but I have to bite at the tip to keep it there
    How do you control a more open mpc with out biting at it?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    Since you're new to tenor the Berg may be just too much mpc for you at this point. You may want to consider a somewhat different piece-Bergs can be a beast and imo, probably not the right piece for you at this point in your development.
    "there are two means of refuge from the misery of life-music and cats," Dr. Albert Schweitzer

  11. #11
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    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    Thomas has a very good point. You have a mouthful with a .110 if you are new. I dont know what you played on other instruments.

    Excessive tip sizes really invite a lot of problems. Bergs are harder to play in tune. That along with the tip size may be beating the hell out of your technique.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: New to Tenor problem

    Yeah, the Berg is a lot of mouthpiece for someone that isn't ready for it. If you're going sharp at lower volumes in the upper I'd bet that when playing softer you play with less air support and bite to compensate without realizing it. Long tones with a tuner will fix this, you just need to practice at it every day.

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