Kessler and Sons <-- Totally disappointed!!!

[ratracer]

I don't know what to add that hasn't been already said...

Two weeks ago, I bought a made in Vietnam KCS1 Soprano from Kessler & Sons...

... so I sent it back to Kessler for a refund.

I've been playing sax for 20 years...

Now the money is refunded but NOT the round trip shipping (25+12.9).

... yes, my skill is not very good, I played fine when I was 10 years old. After that, I just play a few times a year, I am more like a saxophone fan intead of a player.

... the shipping from Kessler to my place is just Las Vegas to Los Angeles, I am very unlucky guy.

Dave said it was my problem. When I found out the leaking problem, i think the pads are not good, the other pad might starts to leak soon, so I just return it.

Full disclosure - I am a satisfied customer of Kesslers.

I don't begrudge the OP posting their experience at all. Perhaps the manner was over the top. The OP certainly expressed a very low frustration tolerance level. The nature of this complaint though is not a defect. With that tolerance level the $37.90 return shipping would have been better spent in an investment to drive to Vegas from LA in the first place.

[jthole]

In the defense of the OP; Las Vegas to Los Angeles is a distance of over 400km! A round trip would be 850 km! (that would approximately be from my place, Utrecht, to Paris and back again)

I know that Americans love to drive, but isn't that a bit too much for picking up a saxophone, instead of having it shipped?

[Joe Jazz]

It would have made more sense to spend the return shipping cost on fixing the leak, no doubt.....

[Smokey613]

In the defense of the OP; Las Vegas to Los Angeles is a distance of over 400km! A round trip would be 850 km! (that would approximately be from my place, Utrecht, to Paris and back again)

I know that Americans love to drive, but isn't that a bit too much for picking up a saxophone, instead of having it shipped?

Haha... that's a "quick trip" in Texas.

[The A Train]

I am of the opinion that anyone that plays/owns a sax or two should learn how to fix a leak. It is so minor a tweak as to be laughable that someone would send a sax back because of it. As stated earlier by Sigmund451, I have ordered many saxophones online and EXPECT them to arrive with leaks. It just takes me minutes to adjust them. If it's just one leak only a minute or two. I realize some of you are more comfortable seeing a tech but this is a really simple thing to learn and I've saved $$$ through the years doing that myself as well as changing my own neck corks, etc.

[RandyJ]

I am of the opinion that anyone that plays/owns a sax or two should learn how to fix a leak. It is so minor a tweak as to be laughable that someone would send a sax back because of it.

Please! Don't try and bring or talk about doing intelligent things...this SOTW would cease to exist!

[Dave Dolson]

I am a happy customer of Kessler - many instruments, both purchased at their store and shipped to me. But shipping is ALWAYS problematic even though all of Kessler's shipments to me have been fine.

However I once received a new curved soprano from a dealer on the east coast and even though it was well packed (shipped UPS), it had a palm-key pad bent off the tone hole. I fixed it myself.

Rather than go through the hassles and animosity of returning the Kessler horn, I'd MUCH prefer to identify the problem and have a local tech repair it. DAVE

[Tenortones]

I listened to the OP's clips. He should be spending his money on lessons before buying a soprano.

Sorry but this is rude and uncalled for. Maybe he sent the horn back because of the attitude of the guy who sold it to him.
Yes it was most likely an adjustment problem but if a player is having a problem you don't tell them they suck-
you try to get to the bottom of the issue and it was OBVIOUS that it was an adjustment problem.
If the guy who sold him the horn had pointed out this possiblility in the first place he may have had a customer instead of a returned instrument.

[BayviewSax]

OP definitely has the right to make his case. Unfortunately, I don't understand why the Sam Ash tech wouldn't just fix the leak. Leaks DO happen in shipping. A leak can easily happen driving to a gig on a bumpy road. The problem here is much ado about nothing, and represents the problem of buying horns via the internet. belden is within his rights to complain, and responders within theirs to point out the flaws in his logic regarding his handling of the situation. I don't see anyone defending Dave just because he is Dave. I've had good dealings with Dave, but I'd be on the phone with him if I had a problem. In this case, I don't see what Kessler did wrong. You do, and we'll agree to disagree. I think the tone of the discussion is saying more about you as a buyer than Dave as a seller.

[jlima]

I think the tone of the discussion is saying more about you as a buyer than Dave as a seller.

Amen!

[kingsax]

Cant understand that if it was just a leak why the hell didn't the guy at Sam Ash put a leak light through it and fix it there and then?

Without getting into a war of who can play the best or your a crap player compared to me etc etc (i guess thats an American thing anyway) what does it matter weather he's a non player or James Carter? point is the sax leaks and shouldn't have and Kessler should have offered to fix it for free, weather the three days were up on not....on the other hand what seems to have happened is the op just didn't give Kessler that chance and simply wanted his money refunded in full at whatever cost.

[pc1234]

fixed that for you.

lol

[35TangoTango]

A couple of years ago, I ordered a custom deluxe tenor from Kessler. It had some leaks, and in the first day, one of the corks fell off. I took it to a local shop, and they put the cork back on and offered to fix the leaks. In lieu of payment, they made me try their wall full of Cannonball tenors, and I ended up buying one of the Canonballs and sending the Kessler back. So my experience was somewhat like the OP's. Things could have happened in shipping, but I do question maybe how thoroughly they play test the low end horns before they send them out.

How do I feel about Kessler's? I thought the shipping cost was a very reasonable price for the priviledge of trying their horn. I'm hoping to upgrade my tenor this year, and the number one place on my list is...Kessler's.

If I lived as close as LA, I would in a heartbeat drive the round trip for a chance to play test virtually every major brand of tenor!

[ratracer]

Cant understand that if it was just a leak why the hell didn't the guy at Sam Ash put a leak light through it and fix it there and then?

Without getting into a war of who can play the best or your a crap player compared to me etc etc (i guess thats an American thing anyway) what does it matter weather he's a non player or James Carter? point is the sax leaks and shouldn't have and Kessler should have offered to fix it for free, weather the three days were up on not....on the other hand what seems to have happened is the op just didn't give Kessler that chance and simply wanted his money refunded in full at whatever cost.

I believe the "experience" point was that the OP did not come across as having sufficient experience with any sax to react as the OP indicated. Especially with a soprano, which is,apparently, generally more problematic and less forgiving than the other larger sax models. OP sent the sax back to Kesslers, money refunded, save for the shipping and handling, and then OP posted extreme dissatisfaction with the way Kesslers handled the situation.

Let's assume that Chuck checked the setup, blew the horn, and was, given his experience, able to blow by the leak that, apparently, the OP didn't have chops to do. OP takes horn to Sam Ash where tech finds one pad leak. OP complains to Kesslers. OP sends sop to Kesslers because Kesslers won't (?) fix the pad and upon fear more pads will start leaking. Kesslers then took the horn back per their policy when OP was not satisfied. OP is now not pleased they don't have a sax and is out $37.90 for shipping. Kesslers successfully fulfilled their end of the purchase agreement. OP comes and posts their dissatisfaction with Kesslers fulfilling their agreement. It's a lose-lose situation for Kesslers. Kesslers has had a couple issues in the past, that I'm aware of. They are not flawless, however, they've been able to come to some amicable arrangement in most (all?) situations but this one?

I for one am not dissuaded to patronize Kesslers due to this dissatisfied customer.

[Allen Halstead]

OP definitely has the right to make his case. Unfortunately, I don't understand why the Sam Ash tech wouldn't just fix the leak. Leaks DO happen in shipping. A leak can easily happen driving to a gig on a bumpy road. The problem here is much ado about nothing, and represents the problem of buying horns via the internet. belden is within his rights to complain, and responders within theirs to point out the flaws in his logic regarding his handling of the situation. I don't see anyone defending Dave just because he is Dave. I've had good dealings with Dave, but I'd be on the phone with him if I had a problem. In this case, I don't see what Kessler did wrong. You do, and we'll agree to disagree. I think the tone of the discussion is saying more about you as a buyer than Dave as a seller.

+1 !!!!

[Buck Laughlin]

Without getting into a war of who can play the best or your a crap player compared to me etc etc (i guess thats an American thing anyway)

That seems like an unfairly broad generalization. Is that a British thing?

[saxphil]

Return shipping paid for by the seller??
I don't know of anyone who offers return shipping on a purchase.

[bandmommy]

Sometimes I read things that make me shake my head and think 'this person would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.'
A leak that may have occured during shipping is not the end of the world.
Ten minutes with a tech and problem is solved. New horn that plays well.
But if it makes a person feal better to send back a perfectly good horn and bash the seller....

[Finnerski]

No need to worry Mr. Kessler, we all got your back

[Steve Stockham]

Well, as they say, "You can't please all of the people all of the time!" Kessler and Sons is not only a reputable dealer but also one of the best in the country. Are they perfect? No, but they strive to be the best! I have dealt with them and found them to be knowledgeable, somewhat opinionated but always geared toward providing the best service possible. This instance has been reported, analyzed, commented on and argued about. So far as I can tell, this is an unfortunate instance that, had it been handled differently by the OP, would have probably been a non-issue at worst. I wish beldin the best and hope he finds what he is looking for but I truly believe it was a misunderstanding and that Kessler made an effort to address the problem. For me, end of story.