Ultimate Ligature, Vandoren Optimum, or another Rovner?

[SaxPlayerJoe]

Hello forum people.
So, I'm a high school sax player and I'm getting a new mouthpiece for my Alto or Tenor soon and it's going to be a Jody Jazz HR (7* or 8*).
I'm never one to use stock ligs, even though I've been told that the stock one for an HR is decent. I would normally go and try all of them to see what I like best, but I don't have that option here considering I'm going to be ordering online, and I'm not sure I want to wait forever to ship them back and get a new one; that and I'd like to have all of them to switch around if I'm going to try them out.
I've used Rovner ligs for a really long time (except for my alto STM) and I've always enjoyed using them over the metal stock ligs.
One thing that I've noticed though are those Ultimate Ligs by Francois Louis. At the all-state auditions in my state there were kids all over the place using them. Apparently it opens up your sound and all this other stuff, but to be honest, my sound is already hellaciously loud and my chops are developed. I'd really like to learn more about what they do from another sax player that's tried them compared to a stock lig and/or a Rovner.
Alright, another thing. I've been watching a lot of the One O'clock Lab Band at North Texas and I love all of their sounds. They all have their own distinct clean but loud and sexy sound that I'm infatuated with achieving.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kex1T...eature=related
That tenor 2 just sounds absolutely beautiful to my ears. He blows so comfortably through all his low notes and his overtones and altissimo notes sound so projected and full. It just sounds like he has more control.
I'm pretty sure that all of them except maybe the bari and the alto 2 are using them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Py3c...eature=related
This is the tenor 1, and if you listen to the entire thing you can hear how comfortable he is with everything he plays, whether it's pianissimo in the low register, or multiphonics during the fermata solo. All I know is I can actually hear a difference with these ligs, and I'm dying to try one out.
I'd love to hear from other sax players that have tried these what they think would be a good idea.
Thanks guys! (:

[Nefertiti]

Would you be mad if I said it has more to do with practicing than the ligature? Just because they play FL ligs doesn't mean everything they play can be attributed to them.......

[fsaxwas9]

I think it comes with Rico H lig, which should work fine...

[SaxPlayerJoe]

Would you be mad if I said it has more to do with practicing than the ligature? Just because they play FL ligs doesn't mean everything they play can be attributed to them.......

Hey hey hey.
I'm not just a snobby high school student here. I practice 6 hours a day and I know that that is the most important thing that can help someone develop their sound.
But look at it this way. Have you ever seen a professional perform live with a stock lig..? I mean, honestly. They all have their preference, right? Well, I'm just trying to find mine so I can start getting used to it immediately. I've tried different ligs on my other mouthpieces and I have noticed tiny little differences in resistance and/or projection, and as long as I can find one that helps me even the tiniest little bit to make my sound better and more to my liking, than I'm going to get it. Alright?

[SaxPlayerJoe]

I think it comes with Rico H lig, which should work fine...

That's what that is! I'm definitely going to compare that one to the ones I try though, because I've heard of a lot of people that switch ligs regardless.

[JackLi]

Hey hey hey.
I'm not just a snobby high school student here. I practice 6 hours a day and I know that that is the most important thing that can help someone develop their sound.
But look at it this way. Have you ever seen a professional perform live with a stock lig..? I mean, honestly. They all have their preference, right? Well, I'm just trying to find mine so I can start getting used to it immediately. I've tried different ligs on my other mouthpieces and I have noticed tiny little differences in resistance and/or projection, and as long as I can find one that helps me even the tiniest little bit to make my sound better and more to my liking, than I'm going to get it. Alright?

Phil Woods, Cannonball Adderley, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Sonny Stitt, Gene Ammons, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Stanley Turrentine, Lenny Picket, Lou Donaldson, Art Pepper, Benny Carter, Chris Potter, Eric Alexander, Hank Mobley, Joe Henderson, Mark Turner, Ralph Moore, Maceo Parker, Sonny Criss, Zoot Sims, Charlie Parker, Junior Cook. ALL ON Stock Ligatures.

[soprano]

Would you be mad if I said it has more to do with practicing than the ligature? Just because they play FL ligs doesn't mean everything they play can be attributed to them.......

I completely agree with you

[Drawde]

assuming they all seal properly, ligs are really only for comfort depending on how you blow. But still, comfort is an important thing. There are minor differences in sound, but those can be overcome once you find one that is comfortable. Basically, find a lig that is comfortable, and work with it.

[ManEast]

Hey hey hey.
I have noticed tiny little differences in resistance and/or projection, and as long as I can find one that helps me even the tiniest little bit to make my sound better and more to my liking, than I'm going to get it. Alright?

Hi Joe

I agree with all of the above. Just try as many as you can. If you find one you like buy it. Also the H lig is not that bad...so there is no mad rush to find what you want.

[florian]

Hey hey hey.
I'm not just a snobby high school student here. I practice 6 hours a day and I know that that is the most important thing that can help someone develop their sound.
But look at it this way. Have you ever seen a professional perform live with a stock lig..? I mean, honestly. They all have their preference, right? Well, I'm just trying to find mine so I can start getting used to it immediately. I've tried different ligs on my other mouthpieces and I have noticed tiny little differences in resistance and/or projection, and as long as I can find one that helps me even the tiniest little bit to make my sound better and more to my liking, than I'm going to get it. Alright?

Many professional players perform with stock ligs. Your comment sounds like you don't know that many professional players. If you really look out there you will find that nearly every ligature is played by someone who is a professional somewhere on this world.
Steve's comment was not rude but gave you an important thing to think about. It is the player not the equipment. The equipment only should help you to make it easier for you to achieve what you want to achieve but it won't be something like a shortcut to sound or the way you play.
Even if someone would be practising 6h a day it doesn't mean he has gained all the knowledge out there, it also doesn't have to mean that he has any experience at all, it only says he is practising 6h a day.
You will have to make your own experiences with ligatures. Some work better with this certain mpc others with that, one player prefers model a and some model b. Our experience may completely differ from yours and would not help you at all, e.g. Rovners, some hate them, some like them pretty much.
Different people, different experiences, different results. Find the one that is perfect for you (in the end you will have a drawer full of them, like most of us).
Some think they affect sound, some think they affect the playability of a mpc.

[Waver]

One of the first things my new teacher (who has lots of professional experience, as well as a nice full alto sound) had me do was get rid of my Rovner lig and replace it with a metal lig (in this case a Bonade inverted). The idea is that the metal lig holds the lower part of the reed more firmly against the table, letting the upper part of the reed vibrate better.

[Nefertiti]

Hey hey hey.
I'm not just a snobby high school student here. I practice 6 hours a day and I know that that is the most important thing that can help someone develop their sound.
But look at it this way. Have you ever seen a professional perform live with a stock lig..? I mean, honestly. They all have their preference, right? Well, I'm just trying to find mine so I can start getting used to it immediately. I've tried different ligs on my other mouthpieces and I have noticed tiny little differences in resistance and/or projection, and as long as I can find one that helps me even the tiniest little bit to make my sound better and more to my liking, than I'm going to get it. Alright?

I really wasn't trying to be rude. I'm pretty much a gear nut myself. All I'm saying is that I have seen many many great players live and I've never once attributed their sound to their ligatures. I have many ligs as you can see from my blog post http://www.neffmusic.com/blog/2010/0...erence-part-2/ . It can make a difference to the player but the difference heard from the audience is so minimal that I don't think it's really a factor. Now mouthpieces on the other hand...............

[Debber]

Hey Joe,

On alto I use a HR Meyer with a Vandoren Optimum lig. which I prefer to the FL Ultimate lig. just 'cause it fits better.
YMMV of course, so just try them and get the one that works best for you with the mp you're using.

Keep practising and playin' and have fun!

[Allen Halstead]

I have a table full of ligs and USE to have a table full of mpc's. No matter which HR mouthpiece I still keep going back to my reliable old STOCK (?) selmer 2 screw. The Vandoren Master (top screw) tends to scratch my mpc ... always a toss-up beteen the 2 ligs ... but if I lost the Vandoren I would not care so much as if I lost the Selmer .... so if I use a Selmer 2 screw on a Meyer mpc is that considered a "stock" lig since it isn't a "special" lig like a Rovner or Ultimate?

[bob reynolds]

I recently gave a clinic in Barcelona and the proprietors of the shop presented me with a prototype ligature they've developed. It is a simple round piece of silver or gold metal (looks similar in shape/style to that wooden barrel ligature that seems to be trending these days).

For the record, I've played the same Rovner for nearly 15 years...but I tried their silver ligature and I noticed an immediate difference. I played it for a few minutes then couldn't tell what was different so I tried the gold one. Guess what? I noticed an immediate difference. I played that for a few minutes. The difference wore off. I went back to the silver one...immediate difference...then it wore off.

After 20 minutes of this back and forth I returned to my Rovner and I noticed...wait for it...an immediate difference.

[Reedscraper]

Bob Reynold's perspective is on the money in my opinion. I have owned Oleg, multiple kinds of Rovners, Optimum, Selmer 2 screw, etc. and I notice an immediate difference which gradually disappears. I will say though, the Winslow and the Saxxas version make a difference that doesn't go away.

[SaxPlayerJoe]

Phil Woods, Cannonball Adderley, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins, Sonny Stitt, Gene Ammons, Lester Young, Ben Webster, Stanley Turrentine, Lenny Picket, Lou Donaldson, Art Pepper, Benny Carter, Chris Potter, Eric Alexander, Hank Mobley, Joe Henderson, Mark Turner, Ralph Moore, Maceo Parker, Sonny Criss, Zoot Sims, Charlie Parker, Junior Cook. ALL ON Stock Ligatures.

Yeah but I'm sure they all still played on other ligs right? And for people like Trane, he used an STM back when there were no alternate ligs for that. I still use my stock on my STM. I use my stock on 3 more of my mouthpieces too. All I'm asking is for is a person with little experience with other ligs here, not a lecture...

[SaxPlayerJoe]

Bob... Reynolds... from John Mayer's band..?
-Starts singing "It's a Small World After All" in head-
I get that though, I've noticed the same thing with trying different ligs as well... They do effect my sound a little, and I've always used the Rovners because they fit better. I've also noticed though that a lot of players I see and love DO use stock ligs and a lot of players I also love also DON'T... Maybe what Debber said and what everyone else is saying is right, maybe it's just your embouchure and what feels better. When I got my meyer back at a music and arts center back 3 or 4 years ago I tried a bunch of ligs with it and got the same thing Mr. Reynolds is talking about... every 5-10 minutes of playing my embouchure adjusted to the point where it was the same sound as the previous ligature with the same comfort ability...
I think I'm gonna get the Optimum because I've been told that the reed plate pushes up really nicely on those and that it fits really well without scratches on an HR.
Thanks everyone. (:

[Tom Walsh]

I recently gave a clinic in Barcelona and the proprietors of the shop presented me with a prototype ligature they've developed. It is a simple round piece of silver or gold metal (looks similar in shape/style to that wooden barrel ligature that seems to be trending these days).

For the record, I've played the same Rovner for nearly 15 years...but I tried their silver ligature and I noticed an immediate difference. I played it for a few minutes then couldn't tell what was different so I tried the gold one. Guess what? I noticed an immediate difference. I played that for a few minutes. The difference wore off. I went back to the silver one...immediate difference...then it wore off.

After 20 minutes of this back and forth I returned to my Rovner and I noticed...wait for it...an immediate difference.

yeah, i noticed the exact same thing swapping between my marc jean and a vintage STM lig yesteday. when i first changed to the marc jean the sound was smoother vs the STM but after a while no difference...

[bob reynolds]

Bob... Reynolds... from John Mayer's band..?

Howdy.

As humans most of us are programmed to chase shiny objects. The thought of a new thing that could affect a rapid positive change is alluring. It releases dopamine, giving us the same momentary rush as when we check our facebook profile, etc.

The problem is where does it end?

For years I played the stock Selmer hard rubber ligature on my link b/c I saw that's what Stan Getz used. Then I saw Redman using a Rovner and I switched. That was 15 years ago. Point is, it makes the most minute difference.

Focus on developing your sound every day. That will always be mandatory and always trump the latest shiny object.

Just my two cents.