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  1. #21
    Forum Contributor 2014 AmandasDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Dolson View Post
    Just to play this game, I listened to about half of each clip, but quickly lost track of which one had which quality. I went back to 4, as Gary picked this one, and I suppose I can agree with that.

    But honestly, AmandasDad, you are asking us to spend a considerable amount of time reviewing each clip, and then report back - a process that would require note-taking if we wanted to respond in such a manner as to not make YOU mad.

    True, we don't have to post, but there is nothing wrong with what was posted. I think you were out of line in your reply to Pete, and to all the others who didn't bother to play your game but did take the time to offer opinions (and valid they were).

    You see, this site doesn't necessarily work the way YOU want it to work. There is no law that says we have to reply directly on point. Many times a thread will take an understandable and reasonable left or right turn, or bring up unintended issues, and the responses that follow are often interesting and enlightening. So what if some posters didn't do exactly as you directed? You still received some meaningful replies. Amanda could probably use any one of those mouthpieces to great advantage, and play music with them. Back off a bit and maybe apologize to pete for your rude post. DAVE
    Dave, You are correct, I was rude to Pete......the post was edited & a PM was send to Pete.
    The site may not work the way I want, though I don't know what I would change, but I feel the the OP should have the right to try to bring their thread back to topic if it does start to turn left or right. Be that me or anybody else.

    I appreciate all who did take the time to listen to the clips, took notes & had something constructive to say.
    I wish I was as well versed in music & the sax as many others here, but I am not.

    bakkiemetkoekie, I provided the link to Amanda's private teacher. I presume we will hear from him soon....but not as of yet.

    Before this thread takes another turn, here are the mouthpieces:

    #1- Selmer S-80 C*
    #2- Claude Lakey Jazz 4*3
    #3- Penzol Mueller (no tip size shown, but VERY small)
    #4- Otto Link Super Tone Master 6
    #5- Beechler Bellite 6
    #6- Beechler ARB 2
    #7- Meyer 6M
    #8- E. Rousseau 4R

  2. #22
    Distinguished SOTW Member CooolJazzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by AmandasDad View Post
    Before this thread takes another turn, here are the mouthpieces:

    #1- Selmer S-80 C*
    #2- Claude Lakey Jazz 4*3
    #3- Penzol Mueller (no tip size shown, but VERY small)
    #4- Otto Link Super Tone Master 6
    #5- Beechler Bellite 6
    #6- Beechler ARB 2
    #7- Meyer 6M
    #8- E. Rousseau 4R
    I'm not surprised that #7 was a Meyer. The 6M may be a little more than she needs right now though. If she hasn't tried a Meyer 5M yet, you might have her give that one a whirl. It's widely used by many professional jazz players. I think she might find the 5M easier to control, articulate, and play in tune versus the 6M. A Meyer 5M is also one that she could easily use for both classical and jazz situations.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Good. And yes, I suppose it is okay for an OP to TRY to re-direct the thread's direction, but taking a different direction is not a bad thing and can be done in a friendly, non-condescending manner. 'Nuff said about that.

    Interesting selection of mouthpieces, too. I've used an S-80C* with a Fibracell 1 1/2 for jazz (that's all I play) to some success.

    Something else needs to be said, though, about these mouthpieces. I'll bet that each one could be improved upon if she did a little reed experimentation with each one. For instance, I've found that MY C* plays really well with that "soft" Fibracell reed, much more so than with a stronger reed. Fibracells for me play harder than their comparable cane cousins and I heard in Amanda's playing with the C* that she wasn't as clear and accurate. I suspect the reed was too much for her and that mouthpiece. Of COURSE, others may disagree, but it is worth a try. DAVE
    Dave

  4. #24
    Forum Contributor 2014 AmandasDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    CooolJazzz, we are on the look-out for a 5M at nice price.

    Dave, thanks for the comments.
    She also has 2.5 Plasticovers, 2.5 Rico Reserves, 2.5 Vandorens (blue box), 3 Vandoren Java, 2.5 & 3 Legere's!
    All the combinations would be too much!
    Not to mention all the ligatures!

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Any of these considered a 'Jazz' sound?

    OK. I listened to all clips carefully and compared them back and forth. I think Amanda sounds best on #7. That said, it has nothing to do with which one has the best jazz sound or which mouthpiece to use in a jazz ensemble. It's simply a matter of which one she sounds best on. If it's not #7, then it's #4. I don't think Amanda can go wrong with either of those. She should pick the one she likes.

    AmandasDad, you are insisting that people respond to your question in the way you have formulated it. You do not seem open to hearing that the way you've set it up has inherent problems.
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 2, bunch of other instruments
    Wall Of Blues, youtube video, P-Town All-Stars, get Rich, Cannons (my band in the 60's) and Cannons record

  6. #26
    Forum Contributor 2014 AmandasDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    MMM, thank you for taking the time, and your opinion.
    I do appreciate it.
    As for your question, PM sent.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Going on tone alone, she sounds most clear and full on the Meyer and the Rousseau, IMO. Either of those would be fine choices.
    Alto: Yamaha Custom 875-EX, Vandoren Al3, Vandoren Blue Box 3.5/Lebayle AT 7, Rigotti Gold 3M

  8. #28
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by hakukani View Post
    Definitely 4 or 7. The first three sound stuffy to me 5, 6 and 8 too bright or edgy. I thought the best for big band lead would be 4.
    I like when we agree on this like this

  9. #29
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009 warp x's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    #4 sounded ok to me. Is there any reason why Amanda does not post here herself?

  10. #30
    Forum Contributor 2014 AmandasDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    warp x......I got Amanda to sign up after I showed her some replies, and asked her to chime in.
    She was ready to, but could not because she had not verified her account.
    We waited a few minutes for the verification email, but it did not arrive & we started in on other things.
    I'll ask her to check on the verification email today.

  11. #31
    Forum Contributor 2011 Dave C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    It's not too surprising that so many people chose the Meyer in a blind test. As others have said it has been one of the 'industry standard' alto mouthpieces for many years, and with good reason.

    At this stage I don't think Amanda could go too far wrong with a Meyer 5m. It is very capable of producing a 'jazz sound' and is ideal for ensemble playing because it can blend, and is not so extreme that it will stand out in a bad way. The Meyer 'Richie Cole' (which is also a 5) is also a nice mouthpiece in my opinion.
    No product to sell, no axe to grind....

  12. #32

    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Sorry but this threat is nonsense. Deciding what mpc she should use by listening to some recordings and getting our opinion is simply not working. I recorded a lot of mpcs that sounded great on recordings but i didn't feel comfortable with while playing. Also recordings often sound different than live (also depends on many other technical terms as recording device etc. etc. etc.)
    But how comfortabel she feels is very important for her future use of the mpc.
    More important than what we or you think is what Amanda likes and feels comfortable with.
    To be honest she is a beginner, she will change the mpc several times again if she continues on her journey with the instrument. Let her take one that she likes. I prefer if parents don't interfere in such decisions and only this decision is done by the student with the help of the teacher.
    Also what we like don't have to be the one that she may like.
    And as already told many times there is no jazz sound. At the stage she is, she should use something she feels comfortable with and good intonation is achieved easily with. Also the wanted sound doesn't alone is achieved by using a certain mpc or reed. It has a lot to do with the imagination of the sound in your head (and she may be a little too young and too much of a beginner that she already should worry that much about this). The most important part is: let her have fun playing with the mpc she likes the most, not what we like.

  13. #33
    Forum Contributor 2011 Dave C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Further to my post above, it occured to me that you could do a lot worse than to speak to Phil Engleman (Sigmund451, who has posted on the first page of this thread). I'm sure he could hook you up with one of his Custom Meyers which would do the job very nicely indeed.
    No product to sell, no axe to grind....

  14. #34
    Forum Contributor 2014 AmandasDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Thanks Dave C, much appreciated. I have had PMs with Phil, though not to purchase a mpc.....yet!
    florian, I am sorry if I offended you in some way.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by florian View Post
    Sorry but this threat is nonsense. Deciding what mpc she should use by listening to some recordings and getting our opinion is simply not working. I recorded a lot of mpcs that sounded great on recordings but i didn't feel comfortable with while playing. Also recordings often sound different than live (also depends on many other technical terms as recording device etc. etc. etc.)
    But how comfortabel she feels is very important for her future use of the mpc.
    More important than what we or you think is what Amanda likes and feels comfortable with.
    To be honest she is a beginner, she will change the mpc several times again if she continues on her journey with the instrument. Let her take one that she likes. I prefer if parents don't interfere in such decisions and only this decision is done by the student with the help of the teacher.
    Also what we like don't have to be the one that she may like.
    And as already told many times there is no jazz sound. At the stage she is, she should use something she feels comfortable with and good intonation is achieved easily with. Also the wanted sound doesn't alone is achieved by using a certain mpc or reed. It has a lot to do with the imagination of the sound in your head (and she may be a little too young and too much of a beginner that she already should worry that much about this). The most important part is: let her have fun playing with the mpc she likes the most, not what we like.

    I totaly agree with you.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    well its a good thing eac person, including the op, can do things the way they want to do them and not like florian tells them. if dod is spending the money, he gets to decide how to spend it. therefore its appropriate to use any method he chooses. when she is buying her own, she'll decide.

  17. #37
    Forum Contributor 2014 AmandasDad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Folks, I guess I should apologize for taking interest....maybe too much interest.....in my daughters musical endeavors.
    I never meant this to be a thread where lines are drawn, but the twist & turns that this is taking for what I thought was a simple enough question is just wrong.
    I will see if I can get this thread locked or removed.
    Sorry.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by AmandasDad View Post
    the twist & turns that this is taking for what I thought was a simple enough question is just wrong.
    I will see if I can get this thread locked or removed.
    I thought the discussion was interesting and worthwhile, not wrong. You may not be able to appreciate it, but I thought that the posts that you objected to were actually trying to be helpful. They may have stated their point of view in a very blunt manner, but I think their intention was to address the larger issue and help you see that what you were asking for was inherently flawed because it would not achieve your goal.
    The Martin "Official Music Man" tenor, Barone black tenor, The Martin baritone, Richards Martin Indiana alto, cheap Chinese soprano, Metalite mouthpieces, Plasticover reeds, Nord Electro 2, bunch of other instruments
    Wall Of Blues, youtube video, P-Town All-Stars, get Rich, Cannons (my band in the 60's) and Cannons record

  19. #39
    Distinguished SOTW Member CooolJazzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinMusicMan View Post
    I thought the discussion was interesting and worthwhile, not wrong. You may not be able to appreciate it, but I thought that the posts that you objected to were actually trying to be helpful. They may have stated their point of view in a very blunt manner, but I think their intention was to address the larger issue and help you see that what you were asking for was inherently flawed because it would not achieve your goal.
    Agreed...

    AmandasDad...the last thing you should apologize for is taking interest in your daughter's musical endeavors. More parents should take as much interest. The only problem I see with the way the original post was presented was that somewhere along the line, someone planted the idea that Amanda should be looking for a mouthpiece that would specifically help her achieve a jazz sound. Once the idea was planted, you went with it without realizing that it was a flawed idea to begin with. That's all that most of us were trying to point out. Not that you shouldn't be as involved as you are...but simply that you were stuck on an idea that most of us acknowledged as not being the best way to approach the search for a good mouthpiece.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Sound Clips. Which mouthpiece would you use in a Jazz Ensemble

    This is meant to be constructive all the way:

    Many guys here have been saying it's more about jazz "style" or jazz "concept." But nobody's really explained what they mean.
    I couldn't tell if this was a classical excerpt in 6/8 or a jazz excerpt. If it was classical, then the style seemed pretty good to me, for what classical stuff I know. If it was swinging jazz 8th notes, however, I think Amanda's approach needs just a bit of refining. She sounds like she's trying too hard to "swing" the 8th notes by exaggerating the underlying triplet rhythm, which is where the 6/8 feeling came from. Instead, try to play the 8th notes almost like straight eights (no swing) but with a bit more emphasis on the +and beats instead of on the downbeat. one AND two AND three AND.... If she needs to take it very slow in order to get the accents in correctly, by all means do that. Then gradually increase the tempo, and see how much "hipper" it sounds.

    Swing/big band guys, help/disagree with me here? Hope this helps! Good luck!
    Last edited by stradivarius151; 04-10-2012 at 12:08 AM. Reason: wrong "too/to/two"
    i admire coltrane for his dedication and his purpose, as well as his nonmusical interests, but I also can't get enough of eric dolphy clifford jordan jimmy forrest benny golson gene ammons barney wilen blue lou marini oliver nelson king curtis bud shank dan higgins david newman

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