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  1. #21
    SOTW Administrator hakukani's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Hey Leon, how about an RPC 115B?
    Sound guy theory of relativity: E=mc^2 (+or- 3dB)
    Sax player theory of relativity: E=mc^2 (+or- .010" at the tip)
    "Free jazz is the vegemite of the musical world. It's an acquired taste."-J. Jacques

  2. #22

    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    For a while I used an SR Tech Fusion when I wanted a more modern sound and it was not too hard to play compared to the large-chamber mpc to which I was accustomed. It's worth a shot. Their "normal" model is .108 and doesn't really feel very open.

    Metalites have a baffle but due to its unique design plays darker. You might give it a try in the M7 size or thereabouts. They're cheap enough you can buy 2-3.

  3. #23
    Forum Contributor 2014 Sakshama's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    The resistance of the mouthpiece comes from several factors, first being the facing curve. A modern well done balanced curve don't have to be long to be very free blowing. Most famous brands like Otto Link don't use modern curves, nor are balanced or long. Flat table improves the response and diminishes the resistance. The problem is it is very hard to execute right, even for reface artists. The third is the baffle area right after the tip rail. If it is curved there you will experience resistance. The tick material under the window adds the resistance just by being there in the way of the air flow. High baffle pieces are less resistant in nature but work well with large tip openings.
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  4. #24
    Distinguished SOTW Member Woody Reed's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Sorry Leon. From the opening to your OP "Recent medical complications, and just plain age, have made me long for a less resistant piece", I assumed it was an issue of not feeling comfortable blowing as hard as you used to, so you wanted something more efficient. Wanting something to cut through in an R&B situation is a completely different scenario. My opinion based on personal trauma with the issue, is you must have a high baffle piece to cut through. Again, my opinion, but low baffle pieces in a legit R&B setting sound as out of place as a high baffle piece does in a straight ahead situation (I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule). There is just a hole to the sound of low baffle pieces that the guitar and drums will just eat up. All that said, there is no reason to get a thin sound on a high baffle piece. You can for sure learn how to thicken the the sound of a brighter piece with embouchure, reeds, and horn. Good luck in your quest.

  5. #25
    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    I'm going to visit Eric Falcon today, have some work done my Links and hopefully not spend more than I can afford on some of his designs.
    What was the outcome - flatten the table, more tip, more baffle?

    Or something new and shiny?

    Wishing the best for you, Leon.
    Go for The Tone,

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  6. #26
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    after reading this thread, I went back and revisited my .110 rollover and really enjoyed it again with a different lig. I realized yesterday I was actually playing the .115 B. Go figure...proof that you should play whatever is most comfortable regardless of what it is.

  7. #27

    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakshama View Post
    The baffle area right after the tip rail. If it is curved there you will experience resistance. The tick material under the window adds the resistance just by being there in the way of the air flow.
    Sakshama
    I certainly do find this to be true.

  8. #28

    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Well, if anyone is still reading this thread, I visited Eric Falcon at the Warburton shop, taking my vintage Links for his examination. As it turned out, he and I both like vintage Link Tonemasters (not to be confused with Tone Edge, which some here have done) and he and I both play Borgani tenors. My Tonemaster has been my main (acoustic) jazz piece and has been worked on by two major refacers, and I swore I would never let anyone touch it, but because Eric is so familiar with these and suggested that though it was "pretty good" he could improve it, I let him have his way. I'm glad I trusted him, because he added vibrancy and life to the piece - it plays better, with less resistance, has more presence, and lost none of the qualities I like about these pieces - round, deep, soulful qualities. He just enhanced (considerably) what was there and lessened the resistance so I didn’t have to work so hard to bright it out.
    I have been playing an EB STM (also refaced by a reputable technician) on my Mark VI tenor for R&B/funk type situations, and though it has worked very well, I've never really liked it. I played it a minute and Eric said, perceptibly, "I think that would sound rather harsh if miked closely". Exactly. It's what has always bothered me about this piece. He did some work on the baffle and presto, problem solved.
    One of the reasons I was hesitant to visit the shop even though it is close is because I knew he would have some of the Warburton mouthpieces there and I was afraid I'd end up liking and buying them. And of course that's what happened.
    1. I bought a HR "D" model, and I never play HR but this one has a clarity that I associate with metal (yes, I know, I know). I played it both on a jazz session and with the funk band and it worked well in both, on the Borgani at a jazz jam and on the VI at a R&B rehearsal. Very easy to play, with just the right amount of resistance, much darker than the J model, which I also tried. I played a silver LA 8 that I really liked, but didn't want to spring for (even though the price is below most "designer" pieces', half the price of some). Drove home (about an hour), drove back the next day and got the LA. I had actually gone to exchange the 7* HR for an 8*, but ended up keeping the 7* after all. (Ving wrote: after reading this thread, I went back and revisited my .110 rollover and really enjoyed it again with a different lig. I realized yesterday I was actually playing the .115 B. Go figure...proof that you should play whatever is most comfortable regardless of what it is. He was right.)
    These are the best multi-purpose pieces I have played. Free blowing but not so much that you can't articulate, fast, with a fat fat bottom but also great access to the altissimo. I normally play 105 but went 110 on this. (By the way, if you happen to own one of Rick Maraday’s Viking 58 tenors, this is a great match).
    By the way, I received absolutely no recompense for this post – no discount on a mouthpiece, no freebie, etc, no promise of a discount for my next purpose, etc. Just got some great work and great mouthpieces at a fair price, without having to be put on a three month waiting list.
    Highly recommended.

  9. #29
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Mouthpiece Maker mfry's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakshama View Post
    The resistance of the mouthpiece comes from several factors, first being the facing curve. A modern well done balanced curve don't have to be long to be very free blowing. Most famous brands like Otto Link don't use modern curves, nor are balanced or long.
    Sakshama
    What do you mean by a "modern" facing curve? Just curious.

  10. #30
    ManEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Good news Leon ...very pleased to hear your sorted.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    Well, if anyone is still reading this thread, I visited Eric Falcon at the Warburton shop, taking my vintage Links for his examination. As it turned out, he and I both like vintage Link Tonemasters (not to be confused with Tone Edge, which some here have done) and he and I both play Borgani tenors. My Tonemaster has been my main (acoustic) jazz piece and has been worked on by two major refacers, and I swore I would never let anyone touch it, but because Eric is so familiar with these and suggested that though it was "pretty good" he could improve it, I let him have his way. I'm glad I trusted him, because he added vibrancy and life to the piece - it plays better, with less resistance, has more presence, and lost none of the qualities I like about these pieces - round, deep, soulful qualities. He just enhanced (considerably) what was there and lessened the resistance so I didn’t have to work so hard to bright it out.
    I have been playing an EB STM (also refaced by a reputable technician) on my Mark VI tenor for R&B/funk type situations, and though it has worked very well, I've never really liked it. I played it a minute and Eric said, perceptibly, "I think that would sound rather harsh if miked closely". Exactly. It's what has always bothered me about this piece. He did some work on the baffle and presto, problem solved.
    One of the reasons I was hesitant to visit the shop even though it is close is because I knew he would have some of the Warburton mouthpieces there and I was afraid I'd end up liking and buying them. And of course that's what happened.
    1. I bought a HR "D" model, and I never play HR but this one has a clarity that I associate with metal (yes, I know, I know). I played it both on a jazz session and with the funk band and it worked well in both, on the Borgani at a jazz jam and on the VI at a R&B rehearsal. Very easy to play, with just the right amount of resistance, much darker than the J model, which I also tried. I played a silver LA 8 that I really liked, but didn't want to spring for (even though the price is below most "designer" pieces', half the price of some). Drove home (about an hour), drove back the next day and got the LA. I had actually gone to exchange the 7* HR for an 8*, but ended up keeping the 7* after all. (Ving wrote: after reading this thread, I went back and revisited my .110 rollover and really enjoyed it again with a different lig. I realized yesterday I was actually playing the .115 B. Go figure...proof that you should play whatever is most comfortable regardless of what it is. He was right.)
    These are the best multi-purpose pieces I have played. Free blowing but not so much that you can't articulate, fast, with a fat fat bottom but also great access to the altissimo. I normally play 105 but went 110 on this. (By the way, if you happen to own one of Rick Maraday’s Viking 58 tenors, this is a great match).
    By the way, I received absolutely no recompense for this post – no discount on a mouthpiece, no freebie, etc, no promise of a discount for my next purpose, etc. Just got some great work and great mouthpieces at a fair price, without having to be put on a three month waiting list.
    Highly recommended.
    That sounds like a great time. I have never had a chance to sit down with a refaced while they work on a piece. That would be incredible.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Back in the late 90's I had brain surgery. I was playing a Sugal Super Gonz 1 but I was feeling like the resistance wasn't good for me after the surgery. The high resistance from blowing super hard and loud caused the stitches inside my head to pop twice and give me meningitis two times. after that I asked Sugal for a Super Gonz II because I thought it would let me blow less and have less resistance to it. I was easier to blow and I could get way more volume on it for those gigs without blowing my brains out..............(so to speak). Over the years I have gradually gone back to the mouthpieces with more resistance as I prefer the textures and mold ability of the sounds of those pieces.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    Yes, I have never had much luck with high baffle pieces for exactly the reason you state: too bright, too edgy..
    I had the same experience with high baffle mpcs for a number of years until I finally discovered the fact that you need a large tip opening to warm up the sound of a high baffle. I learned this when I started using an RPC. A 115B at first, but even that was a bit too bright. So Ron made me a 120 (maybe it's even bigger; I've never actually measured it) and man, that was it. A high baffle mpc that will cut through and blow the walls down, but also with a lot of body and depth to the sound. You DO HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT, though, just like any mpc. With practice, you can play it loud, soft, dark, bright, and everything in between.

    I suspect there are other mpcs and designs that will work in a similar way, but one general principle seems to be an open tip to balance the high baffle.

    Leon, I've mentioned this several times on here, but I restate it here because I think it helps explain your issues with high baffle mpcs. You haven't tried ones with a large enough tip opening.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    By the way, has anyone gone the route of decreasing resistance on their mpc regardless of the size by switching to softer reeds and learning to play with an adapted embouchure, ie. playing farther up the beak of the mpc--in line with the P Barone threads on this topic?

  15. #35
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by ving View Post
    By the way, has anyone gone the route of decreasing resistance on their mpc regardless of the size by switching to softer reeds and learning to play with an adapted embouchure, ie. playing farther up the beak of the mpc--in line with the P Barone threads on this topic?
    I have tried this a lot. Moving to a softer reed certainly makes it easier to blow but I usually don't like the consequences of it. In a loud gig I usually can't get the volume I want out of a soft reed. Also the tone gets a bit "blatty" for me. If you move up to a larger tip opening then that would balance with the softer reed usually. I've tried taking more mouthpiece but I find that I sacrifice the ability to affect the reed the farther out my bottom lip is on it. I like the reed to respond to the slightest change in lip pressure or movement. When your out past that break point where the rails leave the reed surface it's harder to get those fine changes that I am talking about. Usually, I can hear it in another persons playing when they are taking a lot of mouthpiece. It doesn't sound as expressive and controlled to me.

  16. #36

    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Talk to eric, he's a great mouthpiece guy.

  17. #37

    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by ving View Post
    By the way, has anyone gone the route of decreasing resistance on their mpc regardless of the size by switching to softer reeds and learning to play with an adapted embouchure, ie. playing farther up the beak of the mpc--in line with the P Barone threads on this topic?
    Yes, and this works. With the softer reed though, like Ving says, you have to take in more mouthpiece.

  18. #38
    Forum Contributor 2012 Joe Giardullo's Avatar
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon View Post
    With the softer reed though, like Ving says, you have to take in more mouthpiece.
    Well, yes, but.......

    a piece made to play with soft reeds can be played out near the tip.

    The "take more mouthpiece" idea is more of a workaround, but there can be a price to pay for taking that path (the price can be almost nothing for one player and a real lot for others).

    If you don't want to have a larger oral cavity, then taking a lot of mouthpiece can mean a LOT of changes inside your oral cavity to compensate.

    If the de facto larger oral cavity doesn't adversely impact your playing in any way, well, then it works for you.
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  19. #39
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    Default Re: changing from high to low resistance mouthpieces - who has done this and please share

    After experimenting with playing farther out on the beak on several mpcs, this didn't end up working for me. I found too many issues with pitch as well as fatigue in odd ways. After a brief break while I was out of town, I went back to a more traditional spot farther out on the beak on a couple of my RPC pieces and everything "clicked" into place. So I would add that this is dependent on the facing of the individual mpc, as clearly RPC's operate much better when played farther out on the tip.

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