Selmer working on there new next model ?????

[Borganiboy]

Mr Selmer says they have started looking in to there next new model saxophone.Any thoughts on what it may be like.Yes it will be a selmer but will they go and make a MKVI MK2 ????.Many would love this if it went ahead.A brand new selmer MKVI.The exact copy made by selmer .They have a wide range of sounding horns so its hard to see what this new model would be like.Some think doing a new MKVI copy is going back instead of forward but i think it would be a huge hit.Forget the Ref 54 thing,just do the real MKVI thing.What do you people think and what do you want in this new model when it comes about in the future.

[alexd]

I would like to see the new model retailing at a price where I wouldn't be required to sell a kidney to afford it.

[AG]

the old skilled craftsmen that made the Mark VI mainly by hand are likely dead & gone; so much is done by machine now. the Mark VI of the 1950's & 60's in my opinion cannot be remade. the 54 was a decent attempt to make a similar horn, and it is very similar to a VI & a very good horn. let history be history & let's move on, maybe Selmer can come up with something better (gasp!) than the Mark VI. (I know, that was blasphemy). the VI had it's glory days, it was the horn to have if you could back in it's day.....my day too, and many are still in use & still the horn to beat. Selmer has some very good horns, more modern horns today & had I my choice between an average later VI & an early 54 alto (like the one I had a chance to play test several yrs ago) I do believe I'd take the Ref 54. if you're talking a 5 digit 1959 VI alto in very nice condition then no, that was the one that got away many years ago & I'd hop on it like a big frog. I still think about that horn I could have bought for $400 back in high school (1964) & kick myself mentally for 10,000th time for buying the new long bow instead.

no, I don't think they could remake that horn. that horn played & sounded like no other.

[brasscane]

Selmer is indeed working on a new horn, the Reference 75. I produces a bigger, bolder, and warmer sound than the previous Reference horns. Keywork is supposed to feature a nod to the past, such as an oversized left pinky cluster to ease play for individuals with big hands.

[William Bua]

the old skilled craftsmen that made the Mark VI mainly by hand are likely dead & gone; so much is done by machine now. the Mark VI of the 1950's & 60's in my opinion cannot be remade. the 54 was a decent attempt to make a similar horn, and it is very similar to a VI & a very good horn. let history be history & let's move on, maybe Selmer can come up with something better (gasp!) than the Mark VI. (I know, that was blasphemy). the VI had it's glory days, it was the horn to have if you could back in it's day.....my day too, and many are still in use & still the horn to beat. Selmer has some very good horns, more modern horns today & had I my choice between an average later VI & an early 54 alto (like the one I had a chance to play test several yrs ago) I do believe I'd take the Ref 54. if you're talking a 5 digit 1959 VI alto in very nice condition then no, that was the one that got away many years ago & I'd hop on it like a big frog. I still think about that horn I could have bought for $400 back in high school (1964) & kick myself mentally for 10,000th time for buying the new long bow instead.

no, I don't think they could remake that horn. that horn played & sounded like no other.

Right, the craftsman are dead and Fred Helmke persuaded Selmer to break the moulds for the mark VI when he declared the Mark VII as a better horn. He was wrong. That being said, I would play any VII over a reference series horn. The reference horns are nothing even close to what they are trying to duplicate. If they were, no one would be buying old VI's and SBA's. I think Randy's Jones' TM customs are far superior to the new Selmer stuff because Randy puts them together one by one and hand fits everything. That is why the early Selmer horns were so darned good. The other problem that Selmer is suffering from is a lack of direction. They have 4 pro models and now they are working on a ref 75? Let me guess, they are going after the big bell market. A Selmer cannonball copy, what's next a yamaha 23 copy for 5k?

[Borganiboy]

They have 4 pro models and now they are working on a ref 75? Let me guess, they are going after the big bell market. A Selmer cannonball copy, what's next a yamaha 23 copy for 5k?

Hey you might be right there.Good point about the big bell thing.As said what ever it is it will cost ALOT of cash.

[Pete Thomas]

Right, the craftsman are dead and Fred Helmke persuaded Selmer to break the moulds for the mark VI when he declared the Mark VII as a better horn.

Is Fred Helmke mastermind of the very first decent Chinese saxophones?

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/...ke_soprano.htm

I do believe if Selmer ever reintoroduced the MKVI (which is highly unlikely, why would they?) they would make it in China.

[CONN-hunter]

I produces a bigger, bolder, and warmer sound than the previous Reference horns

ha, that's interesting. I was about to say that Selmer should make a CONN Chu Berry copy (also, bigger, bolder and warmer than the Refs) with great ergos and a nice honey gold lacquer (as the Hummingbird alto ref 54). Yes going American.

An American vintage sounding French sax. Take note! that's the only thing which makes sense.

or Selmer does what Pete said... produces the horn in China but only for the beginner or maybe intermediate level, since all Selmer models are currently professional instruments.

[Borganiboy]

Is Fred Helmke mastermind of the very first decent Chinese saxophones?

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Reviews/...ke_soprano.htm

I do believe if Selmer ever reintoroduced the MKVI (which is highly unlikely, why would they?) they would make it in China.

I would of thought they would to grab the market again.Do you not think ALOT of people would jump on such a classic remake.I think people would.In these very hard times and with so many asian horns flooding the market it would be a wise choice.At the end of the day they make saxs for the money.Make the MKVI in France,keep to the original bore ,taper,neck,brass mix as a great 5 digit MKVI they can find.If that would not sell well i dont know what would.As for going to China why would they do that.Yes they would save alot of cash but that selmer paris badge is a big thing to many.

[Pete Thomas]

I would of thought they would to grab the market again.Do you not think ALOT of people would jump on such a classic remake.

No, unless it was considerably cheaper than the (mostly) better Series II. I've owned enough MKVIs to know that there are some great horns, some dodgy ones and they sound good. But not as consistently good as modern Selmers, which are an improvement.

I think people who want MKVIs, will mostly want the earlier ones, not reissues. Saxophone manufacturing has come on a long way since the mid 70s.

[legitalto]

Hemke

[Harvey]

Yeesh...

Why don't they just do what made the VIs such an interesting and long production model? Cut the models which aren't the 54 and tweek it from time to time just like they did with the MK VI.

Something else: I think they could take an excellent example of a MK VI and make a worthy up to date (correct pitched) modern next iteration of it. But the truth is, not everyone can get even the best sixes to have that sound. I'm convinced of this. So what would end up happening is that there would be some people who would buy the new horns, not get them to "make that sound" and proclaim they suck. When in fact they don't.

Harv

[Pete Thomas]

So what would end up happening is that there would be some people who would buy the new horns, not get them to "make that sound" and proclaim they suck. When in fact they don't.

I would imagine that people who can get a MKVI to "make that sound" would get many other horns to "make that sound" or "make that sound but better".

[saxphil]

Selmer should come out with a Super20.

[Bubba06]

I'm not sure what they should make, but I really don't expect them to come out with another copy...

-Bubba-

[Buck Laughlin]

Selmer is indeed working on a new horn, the Reference 75. I produces a bigger, bolder, and warmer sound than the previous Reference horns. Keywor is supposed to feature a nod to the pad such as an oversized left pinky cluster to ease play for individuals with big hands.

I heard they were going to skip the Mark VII reference and jump straight to a Reference Ref 54.

[abadcliche]

Hehe. A reference loop!

I posted this elsewhere in response to Borganiboy saying basically the same thing "they should make another VI". Here is what I said:

"Not going to happen, or it would have already.

I mean think about it. Selmer gets a few dozen excellent Mark VIs, measures, works hard finding a way to make everything the same including metallurgy, lacquer, methods of manufacture. At the end, you have a supremely expensive saxophone (because its methods of manufacture take much more time than currently used ones) that still is NOT a Mark VI because its new. Imagine putting anybody in a room with an original Mark VI and a horn that Selmer expressly says is a Mark VI copy. Take one guess which horn the players are going to prefer, whether it deserves it or not.

The only way out of this hole is to make a horn that is different AND better. Why strive to be just as good?"


Selmer is indeed working on their next model, and they are indeed going to go down to having just one model out at a time. They are striving for many of the same things we want of them and are very aware of the market and its desires and the competition that comes from their OWN horns from the past- but whatever they name it and whatever they use as inspiration in the R&D department, they will never call their next horn a Mark VI copy.

[kwgrinnell]

I liked the MK VI horns I have played, hated them too. Some were great and some just didn't do it for me. I have found the Yamaha 62 horns to be more consistent and just as easy to play. Today I play a 47 Big B Tenor and a 55 Big B Bari and find these horns to work as well as any I have ever played. Back up tenors are a Jupiter and a Gary Sugal IV. Get almost the same sound no matter what I play. I like the idea of quality horns at a price point that students and occasional players can afford. Thank you to the Taiwanese.

K
45 yrs of happy sax

[Harvey]

Pete, you nailed it as usual. While the sound may not be perfectly identical to a good VI, I do believe a very good musician would be able to get that dynamic multi-tone sound out of other horns. I don't know if one would call it a layered sound or what, but I think most people know what I mean when referring to the sound of a good VI. So yes, I think a variant of that could be accomplished with other horns and set ups.

Harv

[Borganiboy]

Well its going like i thought.Many foods for thought.As to there new model what ever they make will be loved and hated.We all like our own thing.I still think the Ref 36 and serie III are a hard act to follow for there modern made horns.Will be nice to blow what ever they make.As for the MKVI thing i've owned a bunch and the last 1 was over 10 years ago.I think a Yamaha 82 Z is the new MKVI type horn but better all around.I'm not wishing they make another MKVI version but think it would sell well.If i fancied a MKVI i would get 1 but not had that big enough erge in the last 10 years.I have played modern horns mostly since then.Alot of them.Ony had 2 vintage tenors in that time,a yamaha 61 and my current MKVII which i think sounds better than any of my old MKVI tenors.If i had the spare cash right now to buy a horn to sit by my others it would be another Borgani jubilee or another 82Z or a Ref 36.Would be as simple as that.These are my fave tenors of the modern times.