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Thread: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

  1. #1

    Default What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    I'm learning the dubois concerto, and I can't for the life of me figure out what the "P" above A# in the first accelerando is supposed to mean. It seems like both bis and 1/2 and the side key would work in the passage, but I'm by no means a sax master.

    Also, is this the right section to post something like this in?

    Edit: It also appears later on in the piece, also above an A#. The first time it appears the notes are(m will stand for middle, such as, h will stand for high, so ledger line non altissimo notes and ):

    mD# mF# hE hD# hG hA# hE hC# hE

    The second case time it appears is:

    hC hA#(this one has the P) mF hA#(This one has Ta over it) hC hA hF

    Edit 2: And now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the P means bis, but a second opinion would still help

  2. #2
    Distinguished SOTW Member ratracer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Not having the music in front of me, I would hazard the guess of piano, or play softly?

    Based on the progression of notes you provide, I can't see any outstanding advantage to using the Bis key that the composer/arranger would specify. It would work just fine but so would a couple other fingerings. I'm thinking the xoo|xoo fingering would be good for ease of transition between the A#'s and the F.

    Be very interesting to hear the thoughts of others, with more experience with this piece, indeed!

  3. #3

    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Quote Originally Posted by ratracer View Post
    Not having the music in front of me, I would hazard the guess of piano, or play softly?

    Based on the progression of notes you provide, I can't see any outstanding advantage to using the Bis key that the composer/arranger would specify. It would work just fine but so would a couple other fingerings. I'm thinking the xoo|xoo fingering would be good for ease of transition between the A#'s and the F.

    Be very interesting to hear the thoughts of others, with more experience with this piece, indeed!
    It's most likely not piano, the p is written above the note, not below. I'll see if I can get a small sample picture of the music up on here

  4. #4

    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?


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    Distinguished SOTW Member/Mouthpiece Maker mfry's Avatar
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    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Not familiar with the convention but p has to mean bis. side Bb impossible there. Looks like the Ta probably means side key.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member ratracer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mezmorizor View Post
    It's most likely not piano, the p is written above the note, not below. I'll see if I can get a small sample picture of the music up on here
    True that. I admit grasping for the answer!

  7. #7
    Distinguished SOTW Member ratracer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Quote Originally Posted by mfry View Post
    Not familiar with the convention but p has to mean bis. side Bb impossible there. Looks like the Ta probably means side key.
    Agreed. For some reason I had the picture of the notes down an octave in my mind's eye. Reading comprehension pretty bad on that one, sorry Mezmorizor.

  8. #8
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Sax Historian paulwl's Avatar
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    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    These are apparently part of a system of French symbols. I can't find a key to them on the web, however.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    mfry is right according to what I've been taught. The "P" is indeed the bis B-flat and the "Ta" is the side B-flat.

  10. #10

    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Here's an article where you'll find them both referenced.

    http://www.jimromainmusic.com/.../Pe...derations.pdf?...

    I'm not good at placing links, but maybe this one will work or at least point in the right direction.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Alright, so I have been using the right fingerings. Thanks for all of the help

  12. #12
    gwysham's Avatar
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    Default Re: What fingering for Bb would a "P" denote?

    Just found this at stevestusek.com

    >Bis key (or “Bis-Bb”) Sometimes abbreviated "P" for "plateau" key in scores
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