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What the LefreQue?

152K views 597 replies 79 participants last post by  Angel Sampedro del Río 
#1 ·
Sorry about the pun...I couldn't resist!

However, I am obsessed with any accessory that might improve my tone, technique, or artistry with the saxophone. I saw this website and was simultaneously intrigued and amused:

http://www.lefreque.com/home

Has anyone here tried this item? Can you please provide an informed review?

Thanks!
 
#119 · (Edited)
I think it's a valid point, that any emotion enhancement could only take place if there is significant emotion to begin with, so it might be best for now to ignore that part of it.

I would ignore any tuning issues, those would be completely human errors I believe ( I can hear a few here and there and I can tell you they don't relate to lefrequeness or lack of it)

BTW people are welcome to post their guesses.

lefreque audio comparison blindfold test 1
 
#121 ·
More importantly, are the winners going to get T-Shirts that say "I took the LefreQue Challenge!"?





It doesn't just give you more emotion and enjoyment, it also helps you lose weight.
 
#123 ·
Okay, here are my guesses:

LefreQue: 2, 3, 4, 9, and 10

No LefreQue: 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 11

I was tempted to guess that #5 and #8 were LefreQued because #5 had strong emotion and color, while #8 had a lot of emotion and enjoyment. But they both were so lacking (relatively, of course) in the other categories that I decided they couldn’t be technologically enhanced with the Dutch Original Sound Solution.

#2 was strong in all four categories, while #3 really shined with both sound and emotion. #4 also had it all, but was particularly strong in the enjoyment arena. #9 really screamed color and enjoyment, while #10 epitomized what the combination of enhanced sound, emotion, and enjoyment should sound like.

#1, #6, #7, and #11 were not bad at all – they just did not exhibit the kind of revolutionary sound and playing enhancement I would expect from a 40 to 200 euro Sound Solution. They were “P-Lig good” (definitely a “pimped” sound), but just not a LefreQue-quality tone. The sound breaches were so obvious!

I’m anxious to hear Pete’s take on the following claim (from the LefreQue website): “You will notice the difference immediately: the sound will be more complete, the instrument will respond much quicker and the greater speed of the tone changes will be spectacular.” How marked were the differences in response and speed of the tone changes with your LefreQued set up, Pete? And perhaps more importantly, now that you have experienced this revolutionary development first hand, will you, like Emily Beynon, solo flutist of the Royal Concertgebouw, “never again play without LefreQue!”?
 
#124 ·
I'm anxious to hear Pete's take on the following claim (from the LefreQue website): "You will notice the difference immediately: the sound will be more complete, the instrument will respond much quicker and the greater speed of the tone changes will be spectacular." How marked were the differences in response and speed of the tone changes with your LefreQued set up, Pete? And perhaps more importantly, now that you have experienced this revolutionary development first hand, will you, like Emily Beynon, solo flutist of the Royal Concertgebouw, "never again play without LefreQue!"?
All of these questions will be answered when I publish the results, I'd prefer to wait and get a few more comments, and to be fair to lefreque, especially from Hans if he cares to take a listen.

If it helps I have added another file (the very first one) which I have identified as not having the lefreque. This may help people as a starting point, and possible makes the experiment more scientifically valid.

lefreque audio comparison blindfold test 1
 
#126 ·
I'm a little curious about the flute thing. A flute mouthpiece is already essentially mechanically joined to the rest of the instrument with a metal connection, is it not? How can adding another piece of metal possible change that?

I can "almost" see what they are getting at with a big honking piece of cork between the mouthpiece and the instrument, though quite frankly it sounds like pure snake oil to me.
 
#128 ·
I'm a little curious about the flute thing. A flute mouthpiece is already essentially mechanically joined to the rest of the instrument with a metal connection, is it not? How can adding another piece of metal possible change that?
I am interested in this aspect, they also say you can use the lefreque on a saxophone across the tenon joint. If this also enhances the sound, then I would suggest you also need them across the bow/body and bow/bell joints.

lefreque audio comparison blindfold test 1
 
#135 ·
Pete, I think you didn't clamp the lefreque correctly on your sax, because I didn't hear much difference in your soundclips :bluewink:!

Anyhow, when I have to guess:

=> 1, 5 and 11 are with the lefreque, the other takes are without (I doubted about take 10).

(I will most probably choose other takes when I listen again...)
 
#144 ·
I am really going to go out on a limb here (LOL) and state that if one were to put one or more magic amulets, like those in the photo, on the mouthpiece and neck of their sax and then conduct the same exact tests as Pete has done, they would get similar results as the LefreQue. I suggest using the ear shaped one because it has special powers to repel the evil spirits that prevent good hearing.

 
#149 ·
And the answers for test #1

The clips with lefreque are 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11

Without lefreque: 3, 5, 8

I have had no response from lefreque to my communications, via PM and email which is a bit disappointing, both from the point of POV of a reviewer asking for information and also in regard to customer service. Perhaps they are not interested.

lefreque audio comparison blindfold test 1[/QUOTE]
 
#151 ·
And the answers for test #1

The clips with lefreque are 1, 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11

Without lefreque: 3, 5, 8

I have had no response from lefreque to my communications, via PM and email which is a bit disappointing, both from the point of POV of a reviewer asking for information and also in regard to customer service. Perhaps they are not interested.

lefreque audio comparison blindfold test 1
Wow, I'm not sure what to make of this. I was closer with my second set of guesses, but I still missed the mark on a few. I guess I have to conclude that either: 1) the LefreQue makes no difference at all, or 2) that the LefreQue actually has a detrimental effect on tone (overall). For me, the defining characteristic for an improved tone is probably clarity. I would assume that a revolutionary sound-breach-repairing product like the LefreQue would produce a tone with more clarity. Apparently, it doesn't.

Two things, though, are certain: 1) I liked your tone in the No-LefreQue Baseline Clip the best, and 2) I will NOT be purchasing a LefreQue of my own. The Dutch Original Sound Solution is no solution for me.

Thanks for doing those comparison clips, Pete. As always, it was fun listening and making the guesses.
 
#150 ·
Pete, I hope you have gotten enough people taking the test to give you a set of data that is large enough for the computed results to be statistically valid. If only a handful of people took it that is not going to be sufficient to set this question to rest.

As to their answering back, I could be wrong but I already have the impression that they won't, given the aggressively insulting language of their last post. I think they saw that the people on SOTW weren't swallowing the snake oil, and have moved on to look for less technically informed marks to hype their magical potion to. This kind of gimmick doesn't hold up too well under laboratory standards of analysis, so the best policy in selling it is to avoid the spotlight.
 
#163 ·
I think they saw that the people on SOTW weren't swallowing the snake oil, and have moved on to look for less technically informed marks to hype their magical potion to. This kind of gimmick doesn't hold up too well under laboratory standards of analysis, so the best policy in selling it is to avoid the spotlight.
Exactly spot on! I think introducing this thing on here backfired on them. Too many of us are rational skeptics. In this case the snake oil was dripping out all over the place. Not too hard to spot it, so we needn't feel too superior about it.

Hey I have a Nigerian voodoo spell that will help you play with more emotion. Just send me your soc sec number, bank account, and credit card number, and I'll lay it on you for free!
 
#162 ·
But you can determine that from what Pete posted. If the person chose 1,3,4,9 and 10 as the lefrequed takes, then by default he chose the others as non lefrequed. There are only two choices to make. Giving the result of one choice also gives the result of the other. I believe you are overthinking this.

If there are 60 people in a room and they have a choice to leave or stay, and there are 40 people remaining after they decide, I don't have to publish that 20 left to determine what choice they made do I?
 
#166 ·
A brief analysis of the results.

29 votes were cast in the "poll".

8/11 samples were with LefreQue, 3/11 samples were without LefreQue. So, in the absence of any influence, the expectation values are: 29*8/11 = 21.1 votes on the LefreQue samples, and 7.9 votes on the other samples.

Observed: 22 votes on Lefreque, 7 votes on the other samples.

A statistical test tells us that the difference vs. the expectation is not significant at the 5% level, or even at the 10% level. (Meaning, you could very easily obtain this result by chance, in the absence of a true effect).

I applaud Pete for going to the trouble of collecting real data. Yes, the sample size is limited... but the effect, at least the effect as perceived through the audio recordings, is clearly not very strong.
 
#171 ·
Sorry, I don't think there is a good way to include aura, emotion or feeling into this test set-up.

Note that while the listeners don't seem to hear any difference, there is still a possibility that the player himself perceives one.

About a year ago I went over to the workshop of a gentleman named Vincent Bernolin, a recorder maker. M. Bernolin makes recorders using very high quality wood, but he also makes recorders from a composite "resin" material. The resin recorders have the same geometry as the wooden ones, and they are also machined in a similar way. M. Bernolin stated that a listener would not hear a difference between wood and resin if the player would be invisible, behind a curtain. To demonstrate this, he played a few airs on both types of recorder and even without curtain I could confirm that they sounded virtually identical. Then, I played them myself - and for some reason, I perceived a difference in favor of wood. Was it purely the psychological effect of handling an impeccably finished instrument of an exquisite material? Was it a difference in surface finish, feel, density, or thermal conductivity of the material? Not clear, but the player's satisfaction may not correlate perfectly with what the listener hears. By the way, I purchased the resin recorder, which plays incredibly well for its price point, and which has given me a great playing experience.
 
#173 ·
Sorry, I don't think there is a good way to include aura, emotion or feeling into this test set-up.

Note that while the listeners don't seem to hear any difference, there is still a possibility that the player himself perceives one.

About a year ago I went over to the workshop of a gentleman named Vincent Bernolin, a recorder maker. M. Bernolin makes recorders using very high quality wood, but he also makes recorders from a composite "resin" material. The resin recorders have the same geometry as the wooden ones, and they are also machined in a similar way. M. Bernolin stated that a listener would not hear a difference between wood and resin if the player would be invisible, behind a curtain. To demonstrate this, he played a few airs on both types of recorder and even without curtain I could confirm that they sounded virtually identical. Then, I played them myself - and for some reason, I perceived a difference in favor of wood. Was it purely the psychological effect of handling an impeccably finished instrument of an exquisite material? Was it a difference in surface finish, feel, density, or thermal conductivity of the material? Not clear, but the player's satisfaction may not correlate perfectly with what the listener hears. By the way, I purchased the resin recorder, which plays incredibly well for its price point, and which has given me a great playing experience.
I like this story a lot. Thanks.
 
#172 ·
the test would have been a whole lot more significant if you, the player, wouldn't have know whether you were playing a resin or wooden recorder ( and especially more significant if you had several attempts mixing the wooden and resin one). Since you knew that you were playing which type of recorder you were immersed in expectations (nobody is immune)
 
#176 ·
Re: What the LefreQue? TEST 2 Giant Steps

As promised I've uploaded another test. This time using that well known melody Giant Steps. I get the feeling that with some more musical than a scale, people will be able to tell the lefreques takes.

http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxophone-lefreque.html

(You may need to empty cache or restore browser to see the test 2 player).

Still no reply from leFreque to email.
 
#179 ·
Re: What the LefreQue? TEST 2 Giant Steps

As promised I've uploaded another test. This time using that well known melody Giant Steps. I get the feeling that with some more musical than a scale, people will be able to tell the lefreques takes.

http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxophone-lefreque.html.
All I heard was someone who could do a very good job of playing the same phrase over and over very well and very consistently, with little or no difference from one take to the next. Now I'm more convinced than ever there is no effect whatsever due to the LeFreque.

As click pointed out, there sure isn't any 'spectacular' difference or change in sound enhancement 'beyond imagination.' I wonder if a hard rubber LeFreque would sound different, though. :)
 
#178 ·
"You will notice the difference immediately: the sound will be more complete ... and the greater speed of the tone changes will be spectacular."

"The expertly chosen material and unique patented shape will enhance the sound quality ... beyond imagination."


I was listening for differences at the level expressed in the quotes above from the maker's page. I heard differences that quite easily fit in my experience listening to the same person play the same notes repeatedly on the same equipment. Really nice playing, but I did not hear spectacular improvements beyond my imagination in any one of the recordings. All the recordings sounded complete to me.

And many many thanks for going to the trouble of double-blinding this device. If something this simple could make spectacular improvements in sound quality beyond my imagination, I would get one at once.
 
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