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Selmer Mark VII any good?

96K views 118 replies 58 participants last post by  Platner 
#1 ·
Hey,
Are Selmer Mark VII's any good? I am currently interested in buying one for $2300 that is silver plated and in really good condition. Does the silver make any difference? What is your guys opinion?

EDIT-
It is a tenor and the neck that comes with it is a Mark VI neck. Will that neck do anything different than the Mark VII neck? Also im a fairly advanced player and have played a small but large variety of horns. Yanagisawa A 901, Mark VI, Yamaha yts 23, 52 (mark Vi was alto and i only played it for an hour)
 
#34 ·
Toughtenor: I'm in "Cannonball" country and none of my students plays a Series II. I've never gotten my hands on one and am just curious as to how they do with Jazz. I'm sure they are good horns, but rumors...you know they run rampant. That's why I was looking for some in-put from some experienced players. This idea of them being designed as a "Classical" horn bugs me. I've heard it time and again and don't believe it. Any in-put would be appreciated.
 
#35 ·
(QUOTE)So you found the Series II to be too bright for you? Just curious, because I, too, like a darker sound on alto, and despite having a lot of students, I've never played one. Would appreciate your comments. I've heard too many runors that the Series II were really a "classical" horn. I never believe rumors until I talk to another player with experience. I'd appreciate your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

I found the later production Serie II brighter than the earlier ones. the early II's are darker IMO than the later ones.
 
#36 ·
I know there are lots of threads on Selmer Mk7 (MkVII) saxes, but I haven't found the answers to my questions, so I though I would post them here on a recent thread about this model. I recently got a nice (but well used) Mk7 tenor and have also played the Mk7 alto owned by the alto 2 player in our big band. I like both instruments and might look out for a used alto if I can find one at a decent price.

1. What does the 'M' before some serial numbers mean and were they only used over a certain period ?
2. Did the body tube design stay the same over the whole run, both for tenor and alto ?

Thanks in advance

Rhys
 
#40 ·
as far as the M before the serial number you better ask Selmer, same goes for body tube & bore too. they tweaked & experimented on the VI some during it's run changing bows; whether or not they did anything to the VII I don't know. I would assume everything stayed the same. why the M before the serial number changed to a N later on in the VII's run I do not know. the "rumor & hearsay" on the M thing was that early on Selmer used the VI body tubes on those VII's but the VII bore & taper is different, always has been. I know of no changes made to the VII from beginning to end of it's run except for that N replacing the M in front of the serial number & that N remains on their horns to this day.
 
#42 ·
yeah, well Selmer continued making the sopranos & sopraninos and baris well into the VII run, but those serial numbers put those into 1972 several yrs before the VII came out, and that's weird because the VI altos & tenors still had the M. personally, I wonder if the Selmer serial numbers aren't a bit screwed up in that every horn, soprano, alto, tenor & bari, etc. falls into the same yr category with it's serial numbers. did Selmer make the same number of sopranos in a certain yr as they did altos & tenors & the same number of bari's? they would have to for the serial numbers to all be correct yr wise. I dunno.

those are two beautiful horns. I've seen em before several times but they are stunning & unusual to be in black lacquer. apparently they changed the M to N on those way earlier than the rest.

with that N on those two 1972 VI's that IMHO has to make any discussion on the M vs N before the serial numbers speculative & irrelevant unless one could get Selmer to actually tell us what they are really for.
 
#47 ·
Sonically the Mark VII's I've played reminded me more of Super Action 80's than vintage Mark VI's--that is, brighter, cleaner and not as rich-sounding as a Mark VI.

It's interesting to see how negatively legends like Joe Henderson and Wayne Shorter viewed these horns when they were new, compared to the Mark VI. For both criticized them in interviews with Mel Martin years ago. In fact, Wayne went so far as to make a now famous analogy of a Mark VI being the "Stradivarius" of saxophones and the Mark VII and other (at the time) modern horns being more like "chainsaws."

Joe Henderson:
http://www.melmartin.com/html_pages/Interviews/henderson.html

Wayne Shorter:
http://www.melmartin.com/html_pages/Interviews/shorter.html
 
#49 ·
In fact, Wayne went so far as to make a now famous analogy of a Mark VI being the "Stradivarius" of saxophones and the Mark VII and other (at the time) modern horns being more like "chainsaws."
Anyone ever ask Wayne about the Serie III tenor?

I recall Wayne playing a Serie III sop for some time.
 
#52 ·
Reading that same page, I posit there are some editing mistakes - look at the beginning of that interview:

****************************************************************

WS: The Mark VII is a very heavy horn. It makes you use muscles that are not necessary. Your muscles get tired; muscles that don't even lead to your fingers.

MM: Johnny Griffin was telling that he was playing one and the sleeves of his clothes would get caught in the side keys. He said it played good, but it messed him up.

Uh-huh. And also the high register top notes had a tendency to crack. It's just not a thoughtfully built instrument. The one I have now I just got today. It was built somewhere around the late fifties or early sixties. That's the kind of horn I had when I was with Art Blakey and Miles Davis. All horns are different, but I heard this particular one had sat under the bed of a grandfather for twenty years. A lady walked in the store with the horn and said, 'Her grandfather's horn was up for grabs.' The store owner knew right away that was one of those saxophones that has "it," whatever "it" is. I think Coltrane had one of those horns.

He had a Selmer Balanced Action didn't he? But later on he got a VI. That certain vintage of Mark VI was certainly a good one.

Yeah, it makes you feel like a violin player. It makes your hands feel like you're doing something violinistic or pianistic. Other horns made today are geared toward some kind of honking and rock 'n rollish, muscular chainsaw results on the bandstand. Why not have that Stradavarius spirit with every instrument? Every instrument should be a Stradavarius according to the desire of the player. People have different desires. Some don't even care. It's good to know that there is a workmanship that's equal to performance. Or there was workmanship that existed that in my estimation is equal to the highest performance that someone can do with or without an instrument. I don't know what happened to all that. Maybe there were some patent arguments; people wanting to copy that and not paying the royalties due. I bet if I look it up there was a court suit and all that.

I don't know. I think maybe it has a lot to do with manufacturing costs and the care it takes to make a good instrument. The guy making it really has to follow it through.

The Mark VII I have is good. It has another kind of sound, heavy kind of sound.

****************************************************************

From the context of that conversation, I think that "Mk VII" should be "Mk VI". Note the "The one I have now I just got today. It was built somewhere around the late fifties or early sixties. That's the kind of horn I had when I was with Art Blakey and Miles Davis."

I wish we could get these enduring, albeit incorrect, transcripts corrected.
 
#54 ·
The Mark VII I have is good. It has another kind of sound, heavy kind of sound.
It just so happens to fit the regular description of the VII. Heavy kind of sound is not something most commonly associated with the VI. In any case, this is all beating a dead horse. The VII will never escape the bad rap and yet it still represents the mold that is used for the vast majority of modern saxes.
 
#56 ·
Wayne may have switched reference in his head, during the conversation from a VII to a VI,
when he said, " It was built somewhere around the late fifties..."

"The one I have now...", meaning, still a Selmer, but a VI.
 
#57 ·
To me it's pretty obvious that Wayne is referring to the VI. When he says "heavy" sound, he means it in a positive way, like "awesome", "dense" or "deep". As in the term "heavy stuff".
 
#58 ·
Following your logic then, it is the VI that," makes you use muscles that are not necessary. Your muscles get tired; muscles that don't even lead to your fingers"?

" very heavy horn", is part of that quote.
 
#66 ·
One thing is a guarantee---people will always have opposing opinions on everything, whether it's horns, politics, or wines. It's just what we do. LOL. Too many players seem to get into the "tone differences" needed for diff styles of music. What i love about my sax idols is they had a trademark tone/sound their entire careers, no matter what style of music they were playing. Coltrane sounded like Coltrane (tone) on his very earliest records all the way to his last. Brecker sounded like Brecker no matter if it was a big band gig, fusion, or an R&B solo on Cameo's "Candy". If you are striving to be an artist, don't be afraid to find and define YOUR own sound. Blow your ***** off and you will get the gigs, no matter if you have a centered or spread tone. I love my Mark VII, serial # M177xxx, and have no prob with the ergos. In fact, when i play a VI or Newer horn, i fumble over my own fingers bc they feel too closely spaced. It's all what you are used to. As an accomplished keyboardist, who comps chord changes, i find my fingers spread wide to reach the chord spacings, so it feels natural on my VII to have spacings wider than a VI. We as humans adapt. So don't listen to anyone's opinion but our own, AFTER you play a horn for awhile. You will know if it's right for you. Life is too short, play more sax!
 
#67 ·
I've always loved my Mk VII, and fortunately my horn doesn't realize that it's supposed to be in a competition with Mk VI's and losing. It's always felt great in my hands, and my stubby left pinky finger has trouble regardless of the tenor or bari I play. I've played that horn so long that making it speak and speaking through it is almost instinctive, limited by my own musical ability.

Nothing but love for my old girl!

Ghrankenstein
 
#69 ·
My VII alto blows my old long bow VI I had in school away, and I don't blush saying it either. To be honest I have run across a couple VI's I might have gave up my VII for but darn few & they were older 5 digit horns and only a couple. VI's are great horns especially when you get a really good one & most are good, but there are some really great VII's out there too......and some not so great as with any model. I could have bought a girls 1959 MKVI in high school for $400 instead of the new '64 or '65 longbow I got for $540. her horn is what made me want a VI so desperately. totally different horns in sound, and I learned the hard way that all horns are not made equal. had I bought hers I would probably still have it & not the VII, but the VII actually sounded really close to her 5 digit '59 VI.....thick spread dark tone which is why I bought it.......that & it was new/old stock still in the plastic back in 2000, fully engraved, dark navy blue around the neck S, honey gold lacquer & a treypac case. the keywork on the VII alto was hardly noticeable in difference for me anyway, I liked it better. VII tenors gave them the bad rep cause VI players couldn't deal with or didn't like the keywork & neck angle. nothing wrong with the sound IMHO. of course there are some who just don't like the VII's period & that's ok cause there are a few horns I just don't like either. I just don't diss em based on my personal preferences.
 
#70 ·
I dont like Yanagisawa tenors but i still say there amazing well made horns and can see why many love them but not for me.I dont diss them.As for my MKVII for sound its fantastic.I think alot of people have not even played a MKVII but jump on that myth wagon and get carried away saying this and that.
 
#71 ·
I think one of the reasons people hate on the VII was that VIs in general are pretty good. Maybe as Selmer produced more horns their quality control went down the tubes? I've played one or two VIIs that were pretty bad. I'm also wondering if that's why I don't like a single SA80 horn, series I to III--think they play mediocre (so I never played a "good" one?).

A really good VII is an amazing horn. Really big core, bigger than VI imo. Dark without being tubby. Remember a friend saying his horn was "only a VII" but it played better than any VI I've played--even my own. I liked mine only because it wasn't so dark, and because the ergos aren't built for a caveman. Pity he didn't realize what a gem of a horn he had.
 
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