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  1. #41

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    LOL yeah they do look pretty too, but many would argue that having a gold plate alto with solid silver crook would look wrong! I don't care, it sounds the best!
    Selmer Paris Artist

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  2. #42
    Forum Contributor 2014 Pete Thomas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by smonkman View Post
    When you play a saxophone the material of the body doesn't move, only the reed. Your logic is flawed.
    These arguments do usually end up with somebody giving examples of a different instrument to illustrate what happens with a saxophone. We all know the skin of a drum resonates, we all know the body of a violin or guitar resonates. You can affect the sound of such instruments by using your hands to dampen the vibrations which are going through them. However you hold a saxophone, the sound is not damped because the sound is created by the vibrations in the air column inside saxophone, which is purely a container for the shape and dimensions of that air column, so the material or finish of the container is not significantly affecting the sound.

    Switching between different instruments with different finishes is never going to be a convincing scientific demonstration. I think it would make more sense to drastically exaggerate a finish, e.g cover a saxophone with a couple of inches of blue tack or lead. Then see if any differences could be heard. I think you would if it was a violin or a drum, but my money would be on on there still being no discernible difference in the sound of a saxophone treated in that way.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    dont forget we do want our horns pretty too and a durable finish that lasts a long time - so we dont some of these nasty looking mk vi's we have now.

    edit: the manufacturers really do have a lot to consider.

  4. #44
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    how about reading in the many past threads the answers to the points (made many times before) 1, 2 , 3 and 4?

  5. #45
    smonkman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by saxsaxsax69 View Post
    LOL.... Umm... basic principle of physics, energy is never lost or created, merely transformed.

    If the material is getting warm (which saxes do), it must be getting the energy from somewhere, therefore this energy can be changed and it must therefore have an affect on sound.

    Its like the air moves when we speak etc etc, you try playing in different air types, that effects the sound. Take some helium and then play the sax, this will effect the sound (and more noticeably) and pitch as the air (or mixture of it) travels faster.

    Its all complicated process, but materials WILL effect the sound.
    Spend some time with Benade's "Fundamentals of musical acoustics", once you understand it you will know the materials used to finish a saxophone have zero effect on sound.
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    how about reading in the many past threads the answers to the points (made many times before) 1, 2 , 3 and 4?
    None of the past threads answer anything. There are two sides, and neither side will give until indisputable evidence is put forth. We can all agree that it really doesn't matter that much, but it's SOTW, people love to argue. Reading threads like this help pass time at work

  7. #47

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    i have. and went through the calculations on one of them.

    Having worked as an engineer for many years. and seen calculations typically only yield results within 25%, or be so far off as to be rediculous. or things overlooked in calculations, or unintended effects of "minor" changes, I cant put full stock in the theory aspects

  8. #48

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    who thinks they will ever get a manufacturer , that paid a lot of money for their proprietary research, to make the results public.

  9. #49
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    All of the past threads have, at some stage, answered those questions. Don't flatter yourself, none of what you are writing brings anything new to this old and trite argument

  10. #50
    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by saxsaxsax69 View Post
    LOL.... Umm... basic principle of physics, energy is never lost or created, merely transformed.

    If the material is getting warm (which saxes do), it must be getting the energy from somewhere, therefore this energy can be changed and it must therefore have an affect on sound.
    The instrument gets warm from the hot air passing through it - something in apparently great supply.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    All of the past threads have, at some stage, answered those questions. Don't flatter yourself, none of what you are writing brings anything new to this old and trite argument
    you got that right!!

  12. #52

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    We human's revel in the beauty that our eyes see and ears hear. We have a hard time separating the two. Especially when we want a beautiful brass finish (whether one thinks a high-luster shiny brass finish or dull, greenish tarnished brass finish is more beautiful doesn't matter) and beautiful tone to correlate somehow.
    "Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself." •Miles Davis
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  13. #53

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    All of the past threads have, at some stage, answered those questions. Don't flatter yourself, none of what you are writing brings anything new to this old and trite argument
    yes they have, but not to my satisfaction. if you are buying the story, thats fine with me.

  14. #54
    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by Flâneur View Post
    We human's revel in the beauty that our eyes see and ears hear.
    Hey! Who are you calling "human"?!
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

  15. #55
    Distinguished SOTW Member Bebopalot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    I find it entertaining that anyone would say that since different material affects sound on a drum, plating would make a difference on a sax or even funnier...... on the keys of a clarinet. Apples and oranges.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Chill dude, aren't you a cyborg?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    Hey! Who are you calling "human"?!
    "Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself." •Miles Davis
    “Always be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of somebody else.” •Judy Garland

    www.stevenbollman.com

  17. #57
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr G View Post
    The instrument gets warm from the hot air passing through it - something in apparently great supply.
    this thread is a great witness that there the inexhaustible source of hot air about this!

  18. #58
    Distinguished SOTW member/Official SOTW Sister bandmommy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    If you guys want I can call around to the music shops in Grand Rapids and Lansing to see if they have one of these Hamilton plated clarinets.
    I will compare it to the same clarinet with silver and nickle plated keys and let you know my findings.
    I will also use the same mouthpiece/ligature/reed on all of them so there will be one constant element to the 'experiment'.

    I could also ask a buddy to join me and record all 3 for review after the fact. I'll bet that they sound the same....
    Old reed players are like fine wine. They only get better with age. Tom Hagen

    Play the Music, not the instrument.

  19. #59
    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Could you please ask them to put the various keys on the same clarinet body so we can get a more scientific comparo?

    And PLEASE don't let your reed change while you're waiting.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Does plating affect the sound; no longer an issue...

    Your schadenfreude is showing.

    Quote Originally Posted by milandro View Post
    this thread is a great witness that there the inexhaustible source of hot air about this!
    "Sometimes you have to play a long time to be able to play like yourself." •Miles Davis
    “Always be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of somebody else.” •Judy Garland

    www.stevenbollman.com

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