Phil Barone

[Bandman II]

Wow...I'm away for a couple of days and all "heck" breaks lose on my post! To respond to a couple of things, first, thanks for clarifying "new vintage" for our fellow SOTW member. Secondly, a horn should be an extension of the player, not the other way around. If you're good, you can make anything sound good. I'm not a full on pro...but I'm certainly not an amature, either. Personally, I prefer the Barone saxophones over almost anything I've ever played, both in testing and professionally. I used to play a Mark VI Bari (broke my heart to part with it, but school doesn't pay for itself), and this is the only horn I feel that is untouchable in relation to anything I've tried. That being said, I haven't played a Barone Baritone so who knows. It really is all a matter of personal opinion so really it only makes me laugh when people post a thread in here saying that they "beg to differ" or if they disagree that I think Phil is a stand up guy. That's my opinion...I'm looking for a specific horn, not a commentary on how a horn that I can't afford and am not looking for is better than another...or whether a dealer is stand up or not.

I do appreciate the opions of most on this site as they are quite imformative and helpful. For everyone else that just likes to add another "notch" to their thread count, well...yeah...I'll leave it at that. Thanks again folks and take care.

[thadnoland]

Lance, John Coltrane didn't move to a Mark VI Tenor until '56. He switched from an SBA. So that means the major majority of his recorded work was not recorded on the VI. Although, I preferred his tone on the VI.

[harmonizerNJ]

Lance, John Coltrane didn't move to a Mark VI Tenor until '56. He switched from an SBA. So that means the major majority of his recorded work was not recorded on the VI. Although, I preferred his tone on the VI.

I would think that the majority of Coltrane's recorded work is after 1956. Was "'56" a typo?

[Sebastian]

I think as soon as any of those guys find a new horn, that does what their old horn does and more, they will switch. It doesn't have anything to do with modern key-work. The demands that a full-time pro of that caliber has of a horn in terms of tonal depth, tonal complexity, tonal consistency, and tonal flexibility, far exceed those of lesser dedicated players. It's a different level of playing. We'll see if any of the modern horns offers these guys the tonal pallet they demand for their art.

This is true. What an average player needs out of a horns is going to be different than what an icon level player wants. I don't think a lot of people get how much work it takes to even be an average/mediocre jazz musician. People who don't play much need something that plays in tune easily and sounds pretty even across the board. I for one know I'll never find the kind of nuance in my playing even just sound wise that Trane had. This is probably why a guy like Jerry Bergonzi has so many old Selmer's and Conn's, or why someone like Joe Lovano has a company like Borgani designing their horns with the old American horns in mind.

Again, this being said, who knows if in the future sometime, people will be talking about how back in the early 2000's, they were making classic Mauriat's and Barone's and whatnot. Who knows, right?

I've never tried a Barone horn, but I've heard some really nice things from players who I respect who are better able to evaluate something than I am.

[Sebastian]

Lance, John Coltrane didn't move to a Mark VI Tenor until '56. He switched from an SBA. So that means the major majority of his recorded work was not recorded on the VI. Although, I preferred his tone on the VI.

This is not correct. Trane didn't start playing a VI until much later. The old johncoltrane.com had a picture of it and said it was a 12x,xxx and that it was Trane's favorite horn.

[thadnoland]

This is not correct. Trane didn't start playing a VI until much later. The old johncoltrane.com had a picture of it and said it was a 12x,xxx and that it was Trane's favorite horn.

Yes it was a typo. My mistake.

[EricM]

Blah, Blah, Blah. I am having just too much fun playing on my Mac 8 Tenors to join in this discussion. Life is too short. Just play the horn and enjoy the art of music.

[Currawong]

This is not correct. Trane didn't start playing a VI until much later. The old johncoltrane.com had a picture of it and said it was a 12x,xxx and that it was Trane's favorite horn.

How do you people know all this stuff? Just amazing.

[EricM]

I have one of my Mac 8/Vintage tenors for sale. Check out my post in the marketplace if anyone is interested.

[Giganova]

I have been interviewing dozens of "old" amazing horn players for my upcoming documentary film about the history of jazz. They are all in their 80s right now, same age as Coltrane would be now. These "forgotten legends" all play a MkVI and a Link STM. Each time I talk to them and say "Nice horn! When did you buy your MkVI?" they give more or less the same answer: "I don't know what horn that is. I just bought the same horn everybody played when I was young". They don't even know that they are playing a $10k horn even though some of them live on social welfare and are poor. The obsession of "modern" horn players about MkVIs and Florida Links is nothing but nostalgia. Back in the days jazz was THE popular music and almost everyone played on the most popular equipment that was available at that time. These "old timers" don't give a damn. There are tons of horn makers who make instruments that are just as fine as a vintage MkVI, and there are dozens of mouthpiece makers that make mpcs that are actually better than most Florida Links. The fact the Coltranes of the 50s and 60s played MkV and Links doesn't really mean anything because god knows what they would be playing today.

Bandman -- good luck with your search! I play a Barone tenor and soprano and love 'em!

[skatkat]

Will be looking forward to the documentary Giga.
Rest assured, in 50 or 60 years when we are all gone, the original Barones, and other Taiwan horns will probably have the same mystique and lofty price tags.

[LampLight]

... Each time I talk to them and say "Nice horn! When did you buy your MkVI?" they give more or less the same answer: "I don't know what horn that is. I just bought the same horn everybody played when I was young". ... The obsession of "modern" horn players about MkVIs and Florida Links is nothing but nostalgia. Back in the days jazz was THE popular music and almost everyone played on the most popular equipment that was available at that time. ...

Makes sense, to an extent, and I wonder how many Strats, Flying Vs, Les Pauls etc. have been bought for the same reason. Plus back in the day, shoppers had no internet and a lot less information to go on. Still, you would think the equipment had to be reasonably well made to be that popular.

[lhoffman]

You're assuming that in 50 or 60 years, there will still be people that play the sax.

[skatkat]

You're assuming that in 50 or 60 years, there will still be people that play the sax.

True.
Many of my friends use synth and computers for half of thier composing and recording. No need for real instruments and the personalities that blow them.

[LampLight]

You're assuming that in 50 or 60 years, there will still be people that play the sax.

True.
Many of my friends use synth and computers for half of thier composing and recording. No need for real instruments and the personalities that blow them.

Hmm. Perhaps singers will be next. Digital recreations and holograms. Probably cheaper to pay programmers than bad boys and divas, plus the digital creations do at most virtual drugs, speak whatever languages you like, don't get old unless you want them to, etc. ...

Not a very happy vision of the future, but disturbingly plausible (to me).

[Sigmund451]

Did all this start from a guy wanting a used PB horn?

Wow!

I guess the old phrase: "Everything is sexual, everything is political" holds up well.

[LampLight]

People have accused us of many things Phil, but if memory serves, staying on point is not one of them.

[Tenor Man]

I have been interviewing dozens of "old" amazing horn players for my upcoming documentary film about the history of jazz. They are all in their 80s right now, same age as Coltrane would be now. These "forgotten legends" all play a MkVI and a Link STM. Each time I talk to them and say "Nice horn! When did you buy your MkVI?" they give more or less the same answer: "I don't know what horn that is. I just bought the same horn everybody played when I was young". They don't even know that they are playing a $10k horn even though some of them live on social welfare and are poor. The obsession of "modern" horn players about MkVIs and Florida Links is nothing but nostalgia. Back in the days jazz was THE popular music and almost everyone played on the most popular equipment that was available at that time. These "old timers" don't give a damn. There are tons of horn makers who make instruments that are just as fine as a vintage MkVI, and there are dozens of mouthpiece makers that make mpcs that are actually better than most Florida Links. The fact the Coltranes of the 50s and 60s played MkV and Links doesn't really mean anything because god knows what they would be playing today.

Bandman -- good luck with your search! I play a Barone tenor and soprano and love 'em!

You're not giving the old timers enough credit; they weren't that obtuse. Just read this 50-year-old interview with Sal Nistico and Tubby Hayes and it reads like SOTW today--both were very aware of different brands of equipment and who was getting what kind of sound on brand x horn and brand y mouthpiece. There's one segment of the interview that turns to gear and discussed Johnny Griffin, etc.:

http://www.jazzprofessional.com/Exch...yesNistico.htm

[tjaart]

What golf clubs does Tiger use, I'll get a set of those.

[hgiles]

What golf clubs does Tiger use, I'll get a set of those.

I bet you he isn't using the same make/model/vintage as Jack Nicklaus used. And the sole reason is not because he's 'getting paid' to use what he has. It's ridiculous to think horn design/manufacture has not been improved in 60+ years. Like I say, "Sure a '55 Chevy has plenty of character, but I don't see anyone relying on them for their day to day uses."

I believe there are some conscientious horn makers out there that make great saxophones. The best Taiwanese horns are no exception.