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Thread: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

  1. #41
    Equake's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    This is why government spending to support arts that way is wrong. Waste of money. So is the NEA. There is no reason the govt beaurocracy should be "dispensing" money to academically connected (usually) artists of any kind.
    Wanna boost the arts?
    Then push the government to wave income tax on any money earned creating and presenting art and music, and then let private organizations raise and distribute money as their sensabilities see fit.
    Hi John. I agree with you for different reasons. When the city or whatever gets involved in arts a couple of things could happen.

    1. Top tier players will come form all over the world and demand their top tier money and eventually the city or what ever will sell the building and it will turn into a strip club or whatever because those players will elbow the "local cats" out of the way.

    Then drain the money dry and move on to the next locale like locusts.

    Am I saying they don't deserve that kind of money? Of course not. Many are the standard bearers of the music.

    I've seen clubs come and go. They start with the local players that are really good and as soon as the club builds up the owner gets delusions of grandeur and books so and so and pays them $10,000 or whatever and soon the location becomes a Ross dress for less.

    I guarantee the cats who need that new center the most will be lucky to ever play there.

    2. When government gets involved in art the artistic freedom can easily be compromised. Not by telling the artist what to play but by selecting who gets to play. Again the name guys ( no offense John ) are going to get the lion's share and the rest will be lucky to get the crumbs.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    I dont disagree with that.

  3. #43
    Distinguished SOTW Member stormott77's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    All I'm saying is the Jazz Mafia better get some good paying gigs there or I will burn the building down.
    Phil Barone Classic Tenor w Phil tone equinox and isotope A Cannonball BB GS w JJ DV 8
    Thats me in round 6. http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxontheweb-blues.html www.myspace.com/stormott

  4. #44
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    I would like to see a tax on blues scales though ...

  5. #45
    Forum Contributor 2013 EE NYC's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    This is why government spending to support arts that way is wrong...push the government to wave income tax on any money earned creating and presenting art and music, and then let private organizations raise and distribute money as their sensabilities see fit.
    Is there even any government money going to jazz venues in the US? Lincoln Center for example is mostly private. And I'm not sure it's taxes that are the big problem. Taxes imply that money is being made. And this is jazz we're talking about. Interestingly, without the European jazz market (which is heavily subsidized) US jazz musicians would not have careers to speak of.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    National Endowment of the Arts.
    The OP was discussing some local city level $$ in tyhe bay area...

  7. #47
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician Grumps's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by paulwl View Post
    Swing is never coming back because it's never going to be allowed back.
    - The general public got it confused with jump music thanks to the abortive swing-dance fad in the '90s, which promoted music which was only good for dancing, not listening...
    I don't know man... listening to swing is fine, but dancing is divine. The whole point was getting the girl, wasn't it?

  8. #48
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Classical musical styles survive mostly in academia and publicly/privately endowed concert halls. It seems to me that classical players who are not with major orchestras have it worse than jazz musicians when it comes to performance opportunities.

    As jazz becomes less and less relevant to people today then maybe it will have to move into publicly endowed spaces and "musical museums" such as the Lincoln Center. If it becomes that or extinction then I am all for this new center.

    I visit San Francisco every year, and I am always disappointed with the jazz scene. There are some touristy joints where the quality of music is low, and there is the new Yoshi's. Other places are hit or miss, and it is very hard for an out of towner to find out about the musicians who are playing at each club. I have never had difficulty finding great music in NY, DC, or even Dallas. So maybe SF needs a jazz center.

  9. #49
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Sax Historian paulwl's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Maybe what jazz needs is more thinking outside the box.

    Or maybe what it needs is more thinking inside the box.

    But which box???

    Jazz = a man with a $5,000 horn driving a $500 car to a $50 gig.
    Conn, Buescher & Martin Saxes - Selmer & Conn Clarinets - Woodwind, Morgan, Link & Brilhart Mouthpieces - Alexander Reeds

  10. #50
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Just dont think with your box...

  11. #51
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Sax Historian paulwl's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    You free-market fundamentalists...always impuning a fella's manliness. :tsk:
    Jazz = a man with a $5,000 horn driving a $500 car to a $50 gig.
    Conn, Buescher & Martin Saxes - Selmer & Conn Clarinets - Woodwind, Morgan, Link & Brilhart Mouthpieces - Alexander Reeds

  12. #52
    Distinguished SOTW Member stormott77's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by nathan61 View Post
    Classical musical styles survive mostly in academia and publicly/privately endowed concert halls. It seems to me that classical players who are not with major orchestras have it worse than jazz musicians when it comes to performance opportunities.

    As jazz becomes less and less relevant to people today then maybe it will have to move into publicly endowed spaces and "musical museums" such as the Lincoln Center. If it becomes that or extinction then I am all for this new center.

    I visit San Francisco every year, and I am always disappointed with the jazz scene. There are some touristy joints where the quality of music is low, and there is the new Yoshi's. Other places are hit or miss, and it is very hard for an out of towner to find out about the musicians who are playing at each club. I have never had difficulty finding great music in NY, DC, or even Dallas. So maybe SF needs a jazz center.
    If you are having trouble finding the good players in the City then let me help you out. The Jazz Mafia is a group of San Francisco jazzers that play many different kinds of jazz at a very high level. If you are looking for a club that has some kind of good jazz every night of the week the Boom Boom Room is always a safe bet. It can be more soul jazz and blues at times but it always has very good players that can hold there own in many styles.
    http://www.jazzmafia.com/
    Phil Barone Classic Tenor w Phil tone equinox and isotope A Cannonball BB GS w JJ DV 8
    Thats me in round 6. http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxontheweb-blues.html www.myspace.com/stormott

  13. #53

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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
    This is why government spending to support arts that way is wrong. Waste of money. So is the NEA. There is no reason the govt beaurocracy should be "dispensing" money to academically connected (usually) artists of any kind.
    Wanna boost the arts?
    Then push the government to wave income tax on any money earned creating and presenting art and music, and then let private organizations raise and distribute money as their sensabilities see fit.
    We need to tax millionaires at a much higher rate and stop spending such a huge amount on the military. I suppose you are against public schools, libraries and road construction. The attitude that the government shouldn't do anything but kill people not only disgusts me but is leading to the destruction of our nation. We are not even in the top 10 countries in internet speed, we are 24th in math skills for children (right behind Latvia) and I could go on and on. Although we are the richest country in the world, we are doomed if our low level of education continues to turn out such idiot voters.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by differencetone View Post
    We need to tax millionaires at a much higher rate and stop spending such a huge amount on the military. I suppose you are against public schools, libraries and road construction. The attitude that the government shouldn't do anything but kill people not only disgusts me but is leading to the destruction of our nation. We are not even in the top 10 countries in internet speed, we are 24th in math skills for children (right behind Latvia) and I could go on and on. We are the richest country in the world. We are doomed if our low level of education continues to turn out such idiot voters.
    The ones in charge want the cuts so they have a bunch of stupid sheep that don't question what they do.
    Phil Barone Classic Tenor w Phil tone equinox and isotope A Cannonball BB GS w JJ DV 8
    Thats me in round 6. http://tamingthesaxophone.com/saxontheweb-blues.html www.myspace.com/stormott

  15. #55

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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by stormott77 View Post
    The ones in charge want the cuts so they have a bunch of stupid sheep that don't question what they do.
    A lot of them have a very disgusting use for sheep.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    [QUOTE=differencetone;1662150]We need to tax millionaires at a much higher rate and stop spending such a huge amount on the military. I suppose you are against public schools, libraries and road construction. The attitude that the government shouldn't do anything but kill people not only disgusts me but is leading to the destruction of our nation. We are not even in the top 10 countries in internet speed, we are 24th in math skills for children (right behind Latvia) and I could go on and on. Although we are the richest country in the world, we are doomed if our low level of education continues to turn out such idiot voters.[/QH

    How long have you been a fan of hyperbole and strawmen?

  17. #57
    Distinguished SOTW Member artstove's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Okay, everyone, chill out with the politics. (As much as I like a good political argument.) I would prefer not to have this thread shut down.

  18. #58

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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by artstove View Post
    Okay, everyone, chill out with the politics. (As much as I like a good political argument.) I would prefer not to have this thread shut down.
    This is why I like Facebook. There is no censorship on my wall.

  19. #59
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician Grumps's Avatar
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Facebook is pretty much the anithesis of intellect, yet more addictive than crack.
    Which brings us back to jazz...

  20. #60
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    Default Re: new Jazz Center to be built in San Francisco

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampcabbage View Post
    As for incorporating Latin, Afro-Cuban, jazz etc... you're kidding right? Latin Jazz is a HUGE part of the lazz tree imo. Any "jazz" program would be foolish to reject it or not incorporate a large infuence of it into their program.
    well, the 'establishment' kind of already did that when the Grammys dropped their Latin Jazz category this year. I guess they think it'll just fold into Latin Grammys. Which is unfortunate. There are Latin Jazz offshoots that are still commercially viable. Still, you need a dance floor for most latin stuff. If this center does not have a dance floor designed into it, then it'd be kinda hard to have a salsa congress there.
    "Actually I'm an overnight success. But it took twenty years." - Monty Hall
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