Sax on the Web Forum banner

Is the Mark VII a bad horn?

68K views 215 replies 79 participants last post by  Paulou 
#1 ·
Or could it just not follow the VI? Tell me about its sound and your playing experience with it, etc.

There are a few of them used at PM Woodwinds in good condition for thousands less than most of the VI's there
 
#2 ·
The 7 is not a bad horn 'per se'. After previous generations of Selmer saxes culminating in the Mk6 it just felt and blew completelely different to what had gone before. Again like the Mk6's there is no 'standard Mk7' Some blew well others blew 'stuffy' also the neck was changed a few times.
To most players these horns were a disapointment, the biggest criticism being the 'chunky' keywork. At present I have a 7 tenor in for overhaul the customer bought it off e-bay. at a reasonable price and it's in very nice condition.
Before stripping it down I put a SA80 neck on and it transformed the sound--we were both taken aback by the difference bear in mind too there were quite a few leaky pads.
I reckon if these horns can be got at a sensible price the addition of a Ref, Serie3 or Serie2 neck w ould enhance them greatly--'chunky' keywork notwithstanding.
These comments are purely subjective of course I am simply attempting to reply to the OP my thoughts on these horns--I would like to add that the build quality on the one I have in is very good. corks and felt is still good after35years
Bopity
 
#4 ·
I'll assume you mean tenor, as there are two for sale at PM Woodwinds and no altos, at this time.
I own a VII tenor, bought almost new 30 years ago, had it repadded once and it is still in fabulous shape,
which helps, to make a fair evaluation.

It is powerful, focused and has the Selmer core,thing or what ever you want to call it.
The ergos are more of a stretch than other horns but it is not disastrous as some say.

I would recommend playing one first to see if you will like it before buying.
Based on reports I have heard, there are good ones and some not so good.

You may hear that you have to be particularly careful after around '75 for a VII tenor or that
M series are better than N series horns.
Best to play it.

Mine is a good one and is a '78 M series with full French engraving.
Most that I have seen for sale have no engraving and some of these are earlier tenors, go figure.

I play mine with the original neck and sometimes a Serie III or Barone tenor neck.
Both work well on my VII tenor and make the playing angle more comfortable.

You might check out a Serie III tenor as well, whose ergos are really nice imo
You can get one used around the same price.
 
#6 ·
Bopity Funk is correct in his evaluation. I bought a V11 alto when they first ever appeared...I even traded my old Mark V1 for it which the shop immediately relac'd and sold. The anticipation of the V11 was great amongst players I knew but I was dissapointed in it and got a 62 Yamaha soon after which seemed much more exciting at the time. In retrospect I should have had it set up and given it a chance. I think the V11 can be a very good horn just different to a V1 which to complicate matters can vary between themselves though not as much as you are often led to believe. The major differences are often in the set up.
 
#7 ·
They are nice instruments. I would take one over many other things out there. I think some of the biggest issuesf the bad rap is that they were a bit of a departure in a number of ways from the VI. Key work is different, but I don't find it bad once it is set up well. They tend to have a little darker sound. Tone is pretty even and intonation is decent. Many classical players I knew liked them a lot. Like anything it depends on your taste and what you are used to. They can be a tremendous bargain.
 
#8 ·
I've known only one person who owned and played a Mark VII tenor saxophone and that one produced a very nice sound.. A military bandsman told me that Selmer was responding to customer concerns over the lack of ruggedness of the Mark VI during baggage handling.
 
#10 ·
I think the VII tenor would be a great horn for legit playing or chamber music. I find the sound to be very refined, focused, and controllable--smooth and dark even come to mind. The intonation is better than any Mark VI tenor I've played. I am 5'11" with average hands and I have no trouble with the keywork. The action is very good and it is easy to play fast and precisely.
 
#11 ·
My Mark VII was my first tenor. Found it in a pawn shop for $149 looking awful and unplayable. Was recommended Randy Jones, who rebuilt the thing, hand-stripped the lacquer with steel wool, put in Resotech resonators and still has not needed any repairs other than cork replacement 15 years later. For a while kept me from purchasing a Mark VI, because while the Mark VIs I tried were sweeter in tone in the upper register, they weren't many thousands of dollars better soundwise.

Ergonomically, my Mark VII is not the most fun to play - heaviest tenor I've ever held, spatula keys earn their "made for gorillas" reputation. It is, however, a professional sax all the way, just different - fatter low end and thinner high end than the VIs, less resonant than a VI or a SBA. For the right price, it's a really good horn, but I would recommend a Keilwerth SX90R black gold in a pinch over it.
 
#12 ·
VII tenors are great. I concur with using a series III neck on them as suggested by saxphil. I have owned a very early one and currently a late one. Seems like a time when Selmer was experimenting quite a bit and recieved virtually no credit for it. I don't buy that the early M series were better than the later N series, simply different, with the later ones seemingly heavier and more robust in tone and construction, but also with some loss of finesse. If one cannot afford a very early (~240,XXX) VI, an early VII is a good alternative to a late VI.
 
#13 ·
I've owned both Tenor and Alto Mark VIIs since about 1982. I love them and find them both to be free blowing. I have been fortunate to know an exellent repair-man who has regularly serviced them both for me. As a result, the only temptation I have had in recent times has been followiing a blow on a Yani T992 (Tenor), but even then I felt it difficult to justify the expense for a fairly nominal change.
I'm intrigued by the comments about it being a "nice" horn - it does "hooligan" just as well for me :)
 
#15 ·
I took several lessons with an awesome player who blew on a VII Alto. What a sound!!! He used a Beechler mouthpiece and Vandoren Blue Box Reeds. Altissimo was spectacular and the whole horn had a fantastic sound.

He is a multi-instrumentalist. Now he is more into the Tenor and having a Reference 54 which is great, he prefers to use a Conn. But his Alto days were phenomenal.

I tried it once (I was playing a VI at that time) and nothing to ask for each other...

All the best,

JI
 
#18 ·
For a tenor, I think the Mark VII can be a great saxophone. I've tried a few that were as good as any saxophone, assuming you like that type of tone, which is a little similar but also different from a Mark VI. I've played a couple that I liked more than some Mark VIs. I personally don't especially like the tone of the Mark VII for myself and also don't like the keys at all, but objectively I think some peple would prefer the tone and might not mind the keys. I know a few players who prefer their Mark VII over other saxophones they tried (including Mark VI). Really it's a matter of choosing a saxophone you like and not saying whether Mark VII is good or not. I can definitely be good for some players.

For alto, I've only tried a couple and remember one that I thought was especially good and one of the better altos I've tried, compared with any alto. Still not what I would choose to play myself though. I equally hated the pinky keys like the tenor but that's just personal too.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I owned an early 60s VI for many years, and traded it in for a VII so I could have that high F# key. Playing in guitar bands, I wanted the ease, intonation and ability to trill that F# in the easy guitar keys of E and A (concert).

It sounded very good in the music store, but because there were many people in the store, I didn't play it too loud.

At low volumes, the VII sounded and responded very well. The intonation was good (for an older sax). But when I got it on stage, I found that I couldn't overblow it and make it go 'blaat', which in rock sax is a very good effect.

The tone was too stable over the entire range of volumes. For some that could be a good thing, for me that was a terrible thing as I really like the tone to change with volume. I think it adds to the expression when the tone gets brighter as the volume increases and finally distorts a bit at peak volume.

I went back to the music store on Monday, but they had sold my VII over the weekend. So I traded the VII in for a Couf Superba II and actually liked the sound of that horn better than my VI.

So I wouldn't say the VII is a bad horn, but whether it is bad for you depends on the kind of music you play and what you want to do with the horn.

For me it was a bad horn, it might be just right for someone else.

BTW, it's all Tenor (I won't part with my 1925 King silver plated Alto)

Insights and incites by Notes ♫
 
#23 ·
Like most others, I played a couple, they were nice ones and sounded good. The ergos put me off. Im sure one can get used to anything but it wasnt a gift, they were not bargain basement prices so I let them go by. I have normal size, not giant hands and I found itl cumbersome to have to reach so far. Despite their designer having giant hands you would think a company would get input from many players before production. You can say one thing for Selmer...they learned their lesson. They never put out keywork like that again!
 
#24 ·
The high F# can be found on Mark VIs from the 1950s. It is optional whether to press the key or not. Except for the left pinky cluster, most other features of the MKVII carried over to the SA-80 with slight modifications on the SA-80II, which is the best selling model in the history of the saxophone.
 
#25 ·
I think that Mark VII tenors are completely overlooked horns. I have tried some Mark VII that I liked over Mark VI. They are all different and, at the very least, Mark VII saxophones are a very good value. In any case, based on my experience and for my taste, I find them much better than modern Selmer saxophones (series III, reference). YMMV.
 
#28 ·
I play a Mark VII tenor that I bought used (the lacquer is beat to hell but it doesn't bother me). And other than the ergos being slightly different from other horns (and ergos being easy to get used to) I love this horn.
I have played my VII right next to my school's Custom Z that I play and I have a hard time choosing which one I like more.

For the sake of completeness, I should probably tell everyone that I have never had the opportunity to play a VI (tenor or alto) :(
 
#31 ·
I had a MKVII alto which I came by under some GREAT circumstances http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?38796-Your-best-deal-on-a-horn (page 4). It was a great horn. In fact, I've only personally played one other horn I like better than it. I have fairly large hands (XL-XXL gloves) so the Hemke design worked great for me. The tone was fine, even though at the time, I wanted the horn to "look pretty" and had it relacquered. Didn't seem to bother the sound at all.

I still miss that horn for the way it played, and for the circumstances under how I got it. I should have never sold it.
(Moment of silence, and wiping my eyes)
 
#37 ·
One of the best horns I've played was my friend's Mk VII. I was debating whether I liked it more than my own VI, and it easily played better than any other VI I've played. Heck, it might be the best horn I've played. The only downside was the clunky ergonomics, which were forgivable considering how phenomenal it was. Had a beefy core, was very dark, and yet was free-blowing.

In other words, I wouldn't get caught up by the brand. If it plays well it plays well.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top