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Tip opening vs. reed strength?

27K views 14 replies 10 participants last post by  milandro 
#1 ·
I've just been playing a few months, but my teacher's asked me to upgrade my mpc. I'm currently playing Rico Royal 2.5 on a Selmer S80 C* that he's loaned me. As I've been checking out pieces, I've seen advice that I should go down to a lower reed strength for a more open mpc, and also that I should not get a mpc that is too open at my level.

So here's my question: in order to aid the development of musculature and control for my embouchure, should I aim for a more closed mpc and stay at my current reed strength? Would I lose anything if I got a more open mpc with a softer reed?

Thanks!
Ashwin
 
#2 ·
A larger tip is going to require more control and that may be an aide to the development of musculature but too far open at an early stage of development can cause you fatigue and you don't want that. Tip size and reed strength are usually changed to find a desired sound. Larger tips will add to the highs and take away from the lows and vice versa. Softer reeds will sound better on the low and middle end of the horn and leave the top lacking and vice versa. So players will play with these things to achieve a certain sound. If you are at a point in your study where you are ready to experiment with your sound then, I would advise trying out different makes and sizes of mouthpieces and reeds. If you are still in the development stage I would recommend sticking with the S80C and playing around with reed sizes. Just my thoughts anyway.
 
#8 ·
I find a 2.5 reed to work well on mpc tips from 105 up to 120 (on tenor). That's for me and we're all different, but I don't think a 2.5 is too hard for any reasonable tip size.

As an aside, I'm not sure I agree with this statement:

Larger tips will add to the highs and take away from the lows and vice versa.
As a general rule, I find larger tip size (all other things, like a baffle, being equal) results in a darker sound, with more emphasis on the lows. In other words a bigger sound in the low register and fatter sound overall. Tip size can be balanced out to some degree with a high baffle. Higher baffle and larger tip will help get a fatter sound, whereas high baffle plus small tip will result in a thin, brighter sound.
 
#3 ·
I've just been playing a few months, but my teacher's asked me to upgrade my mpc. I'm currently playing Rico Royal 2.5 on a Selmer S80 C* that he's loaned me......
Some consider the Selmer C* a decent mouthpiece to start with and stay with for the first few years when starting.
Does he want you to "upgrade" as in change to a different type, or does he want his mouthpiece back (which would be reasonable)?

If you have been playing for only a few months, I'm not sure there is a need to change from a C* to a different mouthpiece, unless there was a specific reason to do so. What would happen if you offered to buy this mouthpiece from him? You could go look at prices online for a new Selmer S80 C*, and if his mpc is in good shape, perhaps offer him 2/3 of the price that a new one goes for?
 
#4 ·
Thanks both for your advice... And I think he does want this one back; he's been very generous in lending it to me, since he's had it for over 20 years. I've been checking out some of the new C* pieces, but they don't seem to play as evenly as this piece. Also, I thought I might as well shop around a bit to get a sense of how mpc/reed combinations work while I'm doing this. From what I can see, there's a lot of choice once you get to the price range of a C*.

Just as a guideline, do you think there's a maximum tip opening that I shouldn't go past? I'm currently thinking that 0.085 is as much as I should allow in any mpc that I try; I don't want to pick something up at a store, or online, and then come home to find that it causes too much fatigue in my daily practice session.
 
#5 ·
Nothing wrong with checking out what is out there. Heck, play test anything you can get your hands on just to try it out. If you are talking alto, a Selmer C* is about a .065 and on tenor a C* would be about a .070. I wouldn't make more than a .010 jump in tip opening at a time to aviod fatigue.
 
#6 ·
To find out what opening you're looking at, you can use this chart:

http://www.jodyjazz.com/facings.altosax.html

It's really quite helpful (there are others available for all common sax sizes).

saxguymatt's advice is sensible - but ultimately, it'll depend on what you feel comfortable with. I'd say start using your own reeds to get a feeling for the effects of a different mouthpiece. Play-test whatever you can get your hands on - it's fun and instructive.

M.
 
#9 ·
JL, I suppose it is all in how you are defining the terms thin, bright, dark ect. What I mean is the larger the tip the more bratty/honky the lower notes get (this can be compensated by reed strength) and the smaller tips have a tendancy to pich up on the high notes and make them thin (and this too can be adjusted for with reed strength) just making generalizations as moving one way or another on tip size. If by emphasis on lows on a larger tip piece you mean louder then I would agree. I may not be putting this into words very well so it may not be making any sense to anyone but me.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the suggestions, JayeSF... But I think I'm going to spoil myself a bit (I probably shouldn't until I'm more developed, I know!) and get myself a nicer mpc, probably a Selmer S80 C* if I can find a new one that plays evenly, or something in that price range. I'm looking for something that will help me do justice to my lovely old Conn 10M.
 
#14 ·
get myself a nicer mpc, probably a Selmer S80 C* if I can find a new one that plays evenly, or something in that price range. I'm looking for something that will help me do justice to my lovely old Conn 10M.
These aren't necessarily any better than the 4C or Hite that was recommended. Another very very good beginner (and onward) mouthpiece is the Fobes Debut. I just added one to my alto mouthpiece sound comparison page, I was extremely impressed and would choose that over a Selmer any day.

it's useful to not be fooled by the name or price tag, they don't always equate to being "better" so rather than spoiling yourself you could just be wasting money.
 
#12 ·
I also don't know if i can agree with the above, it is not the tip size that makes a mpc brighter or darker, it is the size of the chamber. See Berg mpc specs. Big Chamber has a darker sound while a small chamber and high baffle offers a brighter sound.
 
#13 ·
I would recommend using a Yamaha 4C or 5C if you are just starting out. It fairly cheap, and has a great dark sound. I use one in high school concert band, and don't have any complaints. As for reeds, I started in elementry school on Rico orange box reeds. I gradually moved to la voz in middle school, and worked my way up to harder reeds. I currently use vandorean 3s blue box when I'm playing classical, and green box java 3s when In playing pop, jazz, and marching band.
 
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