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  1. #1

    Default OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    I just bought this sax on Ebay, kinda for old times sake. Its the same model I played 35 years ago in high school jazz band. From what i have gathered so far it was made by Conn, listed as a 58M, but is a 6m stencil, but without rolled tone holes. Any info would be greatly appreciated.


    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT
    '35 Pan American Alto, Rovner Deep-V #7 ( .090), Rovner SS1RVS Lig, Plasticover Tenor #3 reed, '56 Pan American Tenor, JJ Classic #7, (.100) Rovner Legacy, Fibracell Baritone #2 reed.

  2. #2

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    I can't give you much about this horn, but it sure looks nice, and the price is a bargain!
    Alto: I have a couple. Tenor: One of those, too.
    Bari: Yes, I just got one. Lovin' it. Clarinet: Too many.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    I'm a Conn-o-holic so I love the old Pan Ams too. There's a couple of cats around town that use them to double on. I've added articulation shelves to the G# levers on both of them and they really like the horns. That one looks to be in exceptional condition. Enjoy it!!!

  4. #4
    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2009 MyMartinTenor's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Pan Ams are still some awesome value horns. I'm playing a Pan Am soprano right now that's a complete joy. Enjoy!

  5. #5
    Official Spender of Too Much Time on SOTW/P. Mauriat Fanatic jmoen3's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    I'd say Pan Americans are the greatest value of all horns. My friend got one that is silver plated with gold wash bell and looks exactly like a chu berry in every way except the RTH and Nail File G#. I've never played a chu, but this thing has a big booming tone and is a great horn to play.
    Alto: P. Mauriat 67R w/ Solid Nickel Silver Neck/Drake Custom Ceramic .085/Van. Java 2.5 Reeds and Hahn Synthetic 2.5
    Tenor: CE Winds Brushed Vintage Gold Alpha Tenor/Jody Jazz ESP .120/RJS 2M Unfiled
    Soprano: CE Winds Silver Plated Alpha Saxello/Yanagisawa 7 HR/ Van Java 2.5 Reeds
    My Playing: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=954022
    -Jared

  6. #6

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    The one I had in high school in the '70's was not nearly in as good of condition as this one. I think my uncle got it at a yard sale and gave it to me. The thing i am most proud of was that in Junior high, I went straight to first chair with it, when all the other kids had brand new "pretty" horns(expensive). By the second month of my freshman year, I had passed 11 sax players to become first chair in concert and jazz band. There i remained all thru high school, thanks to my old tarnished, scratched up Pan Am. That really didnt sit well with the seniors and juniors, when a snotty nosed , wet behind the ears, freshman passed them all up. I did enjoy being the guy everyone was trying to beat out of first chair, but it never happened. I really think it was the tone that old horn had. From what I can gather from

    http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/ConnS...anAmBrass.html , the serial number indicates this particular alto might be a 1937. If so, what a closet jewel. I am very excited for it to arrive. Needs a new neck cork and I hope the pads are OK------
    '35 Pan American Alto, Rovner Deep-V #7 ( .090), Rovner SS1RVS Lig, Plasticover Tenor #3 reed, '56 Pan American Tenor, JJ Classic #7, (.100) Rovner Legacy, Fibracell Baritone #2 reed.

  7. #7
    Forum Contributor 2014 Kenneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Not a good horn. A GREAT horn. You did really well buying it. It may not be an "investment" horn, but it is a keeper, and even if it doesn't say "Conn" anywhere on the body, it still has that great Conn sound. Once it's set-up properly, you should have a horn you'll be more than satisfied with. Enjoy, and congratulations!

    Ciao,
    Kenneth
    Charlie Parker, "My clock doesn't work - I don't come on time!"~~~
    Formerly known as Conn1933

  8. #8
    Distinguished SOTW Member Saxland's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Congrats on yer sax!!!! I am amazed at how low it went for, it really looks like its in great structural shape. And its new looking to boot. I have a Conn tranny/6m. Second line Conns are a steal.
    http://www.smallsjazzclub.com
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  9. #9

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Thank you to all who have responded. It means alot to me. This is a great place to talk "saxes".
    '35 Pan American Alto, Rovner Deep-V #7 ( .090), Rovner SS1RVS Lig, Plasticover Tenor #3 reed, '56 Pan American Tenor, JJ Classic #7, (.100) Rovner Legacy, Fibracell Baritone #2 reed.

  10. #10
    Forum Contributor 2010 Grassiknoll's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Wow... that's slick! And for less cost than a mouthpiece... that's something to brag about!

    Enjoy!

  11. #11
    Distinguished SOTW Member xax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Holy Cow!..
    "There's not enough kindness in the world...".Dale Turner; "Round Midnight"

  12. #12

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Old thread but.... I've got the a very nice condition PA "sandblast" silver, nickel? tenor with gold wash bell, from about 1930- split bell keys, no high f#- From eBay for about 450. in "play condition"...sort of. Anyway, though I always hear raves about these, but I do think a weakness is that when you push them in say below G1, they tend to sort of balloon or get way too spread. Is this anyone elses experience? is this a Pan Am thing or a Conn thing?

    More importantly, is there anything in the set up to minimize or reduce this? Im using a customized/modified OL Vintage HR with la voz or superial DC or Rico Reserve.

    one last question... just how close in sound- ergonomics and keywork aside, can these get to a real Conn of the same vintage? each horn is different of course, but assuming its not a lemon or been abused etc. can a PA be 90% of a 'real' 10M?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    You probably would have been better off starting your own thread...because your questions are good and appropriate of a new conversation.

    That's a really old one....first off, my question would be....is it a Conn 'stencil', or was it made when Pan Am still existed as it's own company ? Yeah, CG (the second CG, not Conn but Greenleaf) owned both companies, but PanAm had it's own separate facility initially, and (presumably) its own tooling. Sorta like when the Indiana Band Instrument company or the Cleveland Band Instrument company existed as their won entities prior to being bought up by Martin and HN White. Saxpics states PanAms were always Conn stencils...this is inaccurate, however (but not atypical of Saxpics' somewhat extrapolative stabs at history).

    Next...can there be such a thing as too wide a spread to the low end ??? Isn't that what folks dig vintage horns for ?

    In answer to your question...sure, a change in setup can probably alter that particular dynamic. Beyond that, I cannot offer much advice. But certainly a change in mouthpiece can either narrow or widen, subdue or punch, the low overtones and spread of any sax....

    Three: "real 10m" ? Here's the thing...folks will often sell a Pan Am or 16M claiming it is a 'poor man's 10M" or some such malarkey like that. I have seen so many auctions where someone references a 10M in order to talk up their sale....it has become commonplace. Sorta what folks do when comparing a Cleve to an S20...or a Committee to an Indiana.

    But (stating the obvious)...the specs of a 10M body tube, bow, bellpiece and neck are NOT the same as PanAm/16M...so, of course...the sound will not be the same. A 10M doesn't sound like a PanAm...nor does a Chu or Tranny. Different body specs, different sound. If mfr's second-line horns sounded like their top shelfers....everyone would have 16M's and it wouldn't be a very wise marketing decision by the company, really...would it ?

    BUT...there IS definitely a classic Conn tonal attribute which ALL old Conns possess...mainly a very big, dark, and wide tone particularly in the bottom end, yet the darkness does not overshadow all else (as in, say, a Keilwerth). A 16M/PanAm has it....it's not quite as sweet sounding as a 10M, it is a narrower sound and not quite as dark....but comparably speaking to other mfr's...it is still a pure Conn sound.

    But one cannot say (with a straight face) that the sound of a PanAm = 90% 10M. Or anything like that. There are definite similarities, though.

    But they are still sweet sounding old horns. Very much so that "big ol' american Tenor sound" which one cannot find anymore in contemporary horns.

    I'd love it if you posted a few pics....
    Go for the Old-Skool, homies. www.2ndending.com

  14. #14

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayePDX View Post
    You probably would have been better off starting your own thread...because your questions are good and appropriate of a new conversation.

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"] Hmmm Im relatively newbie... maybe I'll cut and past this into a new one. I feel guilty starting a new thread sort of... but maybe that is the way to go. Glad its not a stupid questions!..thanks


    That's a really old one....first off, my question would be....is it a Conn 'stencil', or was it made when Pan Am still existed as it's own company ? Yeah, CG (the second CG, not Conn but Greenleaf) owned both companies, but PanAm had it's own separate facility initially, and (presumably) its own tooling. Sorta like when the Indiana Band Instrument company or the Cleveland Band Instrument company existed as their won entities prior to being bought up by Martin and HN White. Saxpics states PanAms were always Conn stencils...this is inaccurate, however (but not atypical of Saxpics' somewhat extrapolative stabs at history).

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]Thanks for that perspective. You sound like a Conn-man... ;- 0....hmmmm Well, its right around a 1930 horn based on what I can tell and look at. Doesn't that automatically make it a stencil i.e., right within the range of the Conn stencil period? with no "confounding variables" in the estimation such as what you've described?[/COLOR]

    Next...can there be such a thing as too wide a spread to the low end ??? Isn't that what folks dig vintage horns for ?

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]Oh yeah,,,too much of a good thing? definitely. Ive heard the description of sound :"falling apart:" when pushed etc. It seems to be along those lines. [/COLOR]

    In answer to your question...sure, a change in setup can probably alter that particular dynamic. Beyond that, I cannot offer much advice. But certainly a change in mouthpiece can either narrow or widen, subdue or punch, the low overtones and spread of any sax....

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"] thats my thought at least initially... Its a medium chamber with a opened up throat transition to the chamber. nice in some ways of course. (btw, I have a '46 alto Lady Conn with RTH etc. that plays beautifully..but its been perfected with work by a local guru....the tenor hasnt been overhauled in a looong time.[/COLOR]


    Three: "real 10m" ? Here's the thing...folks will often sell a Pan Am or 16M claiming it is a 'poor man's 10M" or some such malarkey like that. I have seen so many auctions where someone references a 10M in order to talk up their sale....it has become commonplace. Sorta what folks do when comparing a Cleve to an S20...or a Committee to an Indiana.

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]That's funny.. Ihave a '56 Indiana. But overall Id agree with your sentiment.. that's why Im asking all of this. Funny but lots of people say the body tube of Martins is largely unchanged for decades, often by real afficiandos, not just yakkers.[/COLOR]

    But (stating the obvious)...the specs of a 10M body tube, bow, bellpiece and neck are NOT the same as PanAm/16M...so, of course...the sound will not be the same. A 10M doesn't sound like a PanAm...nor does a Chu or Tranny. Different body specs, different sound. If mfr's second-line horns sounded like their top shelfers....everyone would have 16M's and it wouldn't be a very wise marketing decision by the company, really...would it ?

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"] Ahh.. maybe I mistated.. I meant to compare to the PA's contemporary in the Conn marque.. which would be the 16M, no? In that case I restate my question... to ask viz. the 16M (which is the older version of the 10m, correct?)[/COLOR]

    BUT...there IS definitely a classic Conn tonal attribute which ALL old Conns possess...mainly a very big, dark, and wide tone particularly in the bottom end, yet the darkness does not overshadow all else (as in, say, a Keilwerth). A 16M/PanAm has it....it's not quite as sweet sounding as a 10M, it is a narrower sound and not quite as dark....but comparably speaking to other mfr's...it is still a pure Conn sound.

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"] Yea-- I think Im getting the 10m/16m/PA thing here.. And yep I do recall playing a Keilwerth years ago and thinking its a bruiser and dark etc.
    [/COLOR]
    But one cannot say (with a straight face) that the sound of a PanAm = 90% 10M. Or anything like that. There are definite similarities, though.

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]
    Right, I guess Id have to restate the proposal......all things equal (which is a big contingency) PA= 90% of a 16M ( or 74.8% of a 10M?).. But seriously, numbers aside, I wonder where there real differences lie.. apples to apples old PA to 16M of its day. Im probably going to see the local Conn guru who is a great player and posts. He's a huge advocate of 10Ms (Les)[/COLOR]


    But they are still sweet sounding old horns. Very much so that "big ol' american Tenor sound" which one cannot find anymore in contemporary horns.

    I'd love it if you posted a few pics....[/COLOR]
    [COLOR="rgb(0, 0, 0)"]I'll try to get that together-- and thanks for your help here.
    [My cheap, flimsy 5 year old Cannon PowerShot siezed its retractable lens.......hmmm my ancient horn collection hasn't become doorstop after all these years... oh well][/COLOR]

    Hope I didn't mess this posting up too much..ugh

  15. #15

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    Here are a few photos of the trusty trooper.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ,,,overrated pleasures, underrated treasures...
    Come visit: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthr...Tenor-ligature Now new and improved!
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  16. #16

    Default Re: OPinions on Conn Stencil Pan American?

    and couple more. Note the blue dymo labeling tape which is THE state of the art material for sax repair gurus, like me.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ,,,overrated pleasures, underrated treasures...
    Come visit: http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthr...Tenor-ligature Now new and improved!
    As well as: https://www.facebook.com/glovesgofar

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