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Thread: King Super 20 Question

  1. #1
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    Default King Super 20 Question

    Hey guys I think I found a great deal on a King Super 20 alto with silver neck. It's serial number is 310### with nearly mint lacquer but it has a single socket neck that fits into the sax. Most of the king I see have a double socket neck. Does this make a difference in it's value or the way it plays?

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    310### means it's a Cleveland horn made before the move to Eastlake. This is generally better for resale value. There is some debate about whether the quality of the later Eastlake horns dropped off compared to the earlier Cleveland horns, but the market favors Cleveland S 20s. FWIW much of this debate stems from owners of Eastlake horns.

    The neck is an interesting question. I've played several similar Conn horns, some with single and double socket necks. I can't say that I've ever noticed a difference that I could pin to the neck.

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    Distinguished SOTW Member shmuelyosef's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    SN 310xxx would surely have come with a double socket neck. The change to single socket was somewhere around 370xxx
    "When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading" --- Henny Youngman

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    Distinguished SOTW Member Robert_Allan's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by SaxJunkee View Post
    Hey guys I think I found a great deal on a King Super 20 alto with silver neck. It's serial number is 310### with nearly mint lacquer but it has a single socket neck that fits into the sax. Most of the king I see have a double socket neck. Does this make a difference in it's value or the way it plays?

    If it has a single socket neck on a horn with a serial number 310K, and the lacquer is in mint condition, then several things could be in play.

    First of all, if the information about the serial number and neck is correct, then the tenon on the horn has been changed, an alteration that could only be accomplished with the application of a torch, which would obviously leave the lacquer in a state that most would describe as something less than "nearly mint." So maybe the instrument has been relacquered.

    If the horn has been modified and has a single socket neck, it would be worth quite a bit less than if such a modification had not been made.



    The double-socket style of neck was phased out sometime after 382K and before 385K.

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    there is no diff in the way they play. i have had both kinds of necks on super20,s and there is no diff. if anything i think the responce on the single is better
    runyon mouthpeices-no need to look elsewhere

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    Distinguished SOTW Member/Logician Grumps's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert_Allan View Post
    If the horn has been modified and has a single socket neck, it would be worth quite a bit less than if such a modification had not been made.
    Very true, but if it plays well, that might give you a bargaining chip to work the price down. I've got a Zephyr with the double socket neck and a later Silversonic without it. Double socket necks are more problematic with sealing leaks, and in my view the concept was never really a good idea.

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    Should you want to try a custom neck, it is less expensive to purchase one that is a single socket. However, from a resale point of view, any sax that is not original tends to be worth less money. Having played both on tenor I can't say I notice and difference between the single socket and double socket neck and therefore, pretty much agree with Super20dan. I do think the neck of the Super20 is an important part of "the sound' but it seems to me the sound difference between the double and single neck is not a big factor.
    Tenor: Saxart Creative Tenor Silverplate, Warburton LA 7*, ED Rovner lig.
    Alto: Selmer Mk VI, Barone Vintage, ED Rovner lig
    Soprano: Jupiter 947, Bari HR, ED Rovner lig

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    The horn is definitely original no doubt about that. It is a closet horn for the most part. The black gator skin case barely has a scratch on it. The guy is on his way down from Mississippi with the horn now and I should have it here around 315PM for further inspection. I will double check the serial number again and inspect the neck tenon and lacquer around the neck when he gets here for signs that it may have been altered. I'm pretty sure it said Cleveland on it as well somewhere around the King Super 20 logo but will double check that as well. I don't think it had the star-bursts on the bell keys and I know it didn't have the pearls on the key touches. He only wants 2K for the horn and is throwing in a student model tenor made by Scott and a Holton trumpet to sweeten the deal. With those horns in the mix I'm really paying around 1700 for it so that puts me where I want to be if everything else is fine.

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    No sunburst engraving on the bell key-cups on a 310XXX? .........No way, It should be engraved on more key-cups too! The low price and the goodies + the lack of sunburst engraving on the keys and the single socket.......this thing is very fishy and I would like to see pics when you get it. Could it be that the first digit isn't actually a 3 but a 8 ? (there are very late Super 20's in that serial number range) that would explain everything, the nice looks, the lack of engraving, the single socket..........the low price and the goodies!

    If that is the case you still have a good horn just not palatable to collectors

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    OK he gave me the wrong serial. The serial is 391### and it does have sunbursts on the bell keys with single socket silver neck that is original. Lacquer is original too. It isn't a closet horn cause it has minor scratches throughout from regular play. It otherwise is in real good shape. What do you think it is worth? I will post pictures in a few minutes.

    Does anyone know what a "Scott" horn made in Italy is?

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    Here is the horn. It says Cleveland on the bell too. So what do you guys think it's value will be?

  12. #12

    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    I have a 385xxx silver sonic. Single socket neck and that same original aligator case. Your case is definitely in better shape than mine. It looks like there are no major dents. I think its a great deal for 2K. Congrads

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    i agree!
    runyon mouthpeices-no need to look elsewhere

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    Yes, all the way a great deal ! Congratulations!

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    So what do you guys think it is worth?

    It had a few leaks so I changed a few upper stack corks last night that had worn down and floated the D# pad. Man this horn plays for days. I couldn't put it down. I may not pick up my Selmers again for a while.

  16. #16
    Distinguished SOTW Coffee Guru milandro's Avatar
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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    the current price in my part of the world would be around 2300-2500€ which is quite a bit more that you've paid......so, well done!
    Price is very much a local thing though. At the moment given the crisis and credit crunch aftermath, American prices seem to have bee going through the floor and you hear of great deal (particularly on super 20's, I've noticed) rather often these days.

    I have unsuccessfully had a Super 20 Eastlake tenor (I have two ) for sale for 6 months now for 2000€ (which is my absolute bottom price for me , shops ask as much as 3000€ for a Eastlake non silver neck Super 20 tenor around here)

    But you did very well and you got two more horns with it, can't complain!

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    Default Re: King Super 20 Question

    Oh, no complaints here. Just don't know a lot about king horns and trying to get a good gauge on what I have and what would be a fair resale price. Thanks so much

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