Latin Rhthyms

[Pete Thomas]

It isn't really either on that recording.

I agree it's neither, but I would call it closer to a bossa due to the implied clave. There is no clave in a samba, or any traditional Brazilian music that I know of, and as soon as there is then it's not Samba.

Bossa Nova is really a fusion of samba (bass line = boom, ba doom) plus a clave beat on top and steady straight 8s on a hihat, rhythm guitar or shaker. The clave is often on the snare sidestick and can be 3/2 or 2/3 (and often a mess of the 2!)

The jazzier versions of Bossa Nova are really a stage further away from Brazilian music, to the extent that a few Brazilian musicians I know call the Getz/Gilberto collaboration purely North American music. For more "authentic" Brazilian bossa, have a listen to earlier stuff by Gilberto, Jobim of course and Baden Powell.

Once you start getting creative in a more jazz context, as in the Joe Henderson example, it just becomes a sort of vague "latin jazz" genre which can be a fusion of many stylistic elements, either pre existing or invented.

[Oric Muso]

The samba is treated something like a religion by Brazilians so bossas being a variation of the samba were seen of a corruption of their music.
Some of the versions of this tune sound more like a samba though it is classed as a bossa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCEjkzJRgC8 I think the percussion used is a bit off-putting in the original. You need to try and listen to the onbeat parts and count so you feel the bars.
The tune's in the old Real Book 1. Some Latin has bars which oscillate between on and off beats at the start. This tune moves around a bit more. I think it can help to take your quaver beat (eighth notes) as the base rather than trying to work in crotchet timing. Sometimes you have to go at half speed to figure it out and then once you get more of a feel you can work up to the full tempo.

[piwikiwi]

I agree it's neither, but I would call it closer to a bossa due to the implied clave. There is no clave in a samba, or any traditional Brazilian music that I know of, and as soon as there is then it's not Samba.

Bossa Nova is really a fusion of samba (bass line = boom, ba doom) plus a clave beat on top and steady straight 8s on a hihat, rhythm guitar or shaker. The clave is often on the snare sidestick and can be 3/2 or 2/3 (and often a mess of the 2!)

The jazzier versions of Bossa Nova are really a stage further away from Brazilian music, to the extent that a few Brazilian musicians I know call the Getz/Gilberto collaboration purely North American music. For more "authentic" Brazilian bossa, have a listen to earlier stuff by Gilberto, Jobim of course and Baden Powell.

Once you start getting creative in a more jazz context, as in the Joe Henderson example, it just becomes a sort of vague "latin jazz" genre which can be a fusion of many stylistic elements, either pre existing or invented.

Is it a good idea to start to learn how to count/tap clave? 3/2 and 2/3?

[Pete Thomas]

Is it a good idea to start to learn how to count/tap clave? 3/2 and 2/3?

Yes, clave is such an important element not just of latin (and some African) music, but also a lot of rock and funk.

[sandy cameron]

Just last week, I did a concert featuring Cuban rhythms. We had a Cuban bass player and a drummer who studies these rhythms. On most of the tunes we played, I had no problem, but on a tune like "Mambo No. 5", after my solo, I would try to get into a repetitive motif and I'd lose "One". I'd listen to the drummer, but he forgot to thump it out for me. The Cuban would stop what she was doing and play my part until I found "One", then resume trying to get me "off the rails" again with her bass lines. We only had two rehearsals, so I don't feel too bad about it, altho' I've scheduled some more sessions, chasing after "One". The reaction from the audience at this concert was amazing. They LOVED it.

[Oric Muso]

Usually the bass should help you keep your place. Mambos should have a good regular pulse going through it sometimes you'll get the cowbell (mambo bell). You have to remember a lot of this stuff uses a two bar pattern so you may get the 'one' in the first bar, but not the next one. Try and recognise the whole two bar pattern. Don't concentrate on all the clacking and rattling. Some drumming patterns in Latin will alter through the piece, especially 'clave' patterns in bossas.

Clave(s) mean key. It is the key to the rhythm all the other rhythmic patterns should fit around it. Where the beats of the clave is varies, so it can be easier to listen out for the bass and/or ganza. Ganza patterns are almost always built on quaver (8th) notes, although it may pulse on certain beats. If you have a ganza it should help identify bar lengths. It a good idea to learn to play ganza and clave. It not only helps you become familiar with the rhythms but you can help out and play whilst someone is soloing.