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Thread: Super 20 Fan Club

  1. #641
    Distinguished SOTW Member Turnaround's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    I was just cleaning my horns up and practicing today. Honestly, I've had too many horns, but these S20s just fit me perfectly. As far as I've noticed, their tones change with different mouthpiece more than any other horn I've played.

  2. #642
    Forum Contributor 2014 Smokey613's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    I am going to post just to renew this thread. I do have a question. What is the highest serial number so far on a Cleveland Super 20? Mine is an Eastlake 427XXX. I was trying to determine how soon after the move to Eastlake mine was made.
    Super 20 Silversonic Tenor 427xxx - Purchased New 1968
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  3. #643
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey613 View Post
    I am going to post just to renew this thread. I do have a question. What is the highest serial number so far on a Cleveland Super 20? Mine is an Eastlake 427XXX. I was trying to determine how soon after the move to Eastlake mine was made.
    Step 1) http://www.hnwhite.com/hnwhitepage%20part%20two.htm which states that the move to Eastlake was in 1964.
    Step 2) What was the serial number of the last Cleveland horn. Doubtful we'll know for sure, but a reasonable guess would be the mid-range of the 1964 production
    Step 3) Anyone *know* for sure what that is?

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  4. #644
    "King In The Castle" & Distinguished SOTW Member Yellowhorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Jason,

    It is nice to see you drop in here.

    As for the serial number during which King moved to Eastlake from Cleveland, Saxpics has it at around 426,000. Apparently, what this could mean is that some of the horns that some body tubes and bells were made in the Cleveland before the move were brought to and engraved Eastlake. So, it could be that some early Eastlake horns were actually made in Cleveland but stamped a serial number later than 426,XXX. Now this is just my own theory.

    Turnaround, are you around? You know more about Super 20's than anyone here, I think.
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  5. #645
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowhorn View Post
    Jason,

    ...... what this could mean is that some of the horns that some body tubes and bells were made in the Cleveland before the move were brought to and engraved Eastlake. So, it could be that some early Eastlake horns were actually made in Cleveland but stamped a serial number later than 426,XXX. Now this is just my own theory......
    Yes, I agree...this is a real world theory.
    "If you don't shine, you are darkness" -Charles Wright

  6. #646
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Several people on this site know a boatload about Super 20s. In addition to the aforementioned honorable individuals, Xax, Robert_Allen, Schmulyejosef, etc. may know when the switch took place. I cannot remember his name off the top of my head but the guy who now is behind the HN White "brand" might also know. He regularly sells Super 20s on the bay and makes cases for them.

    FWIW, I purchased a 426K Eastlake for a friend in Denmark. Played like gangbusters...almost as good as my 477K.

  7. #647
    Forum Contributor 2014 Smokey613's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    How does one become an "official" member of the Super 20 club?

    NM... I just discovered the JOIN link...
    Super 20 Silversonic Tenor 427xxx - Purchased New 1968
    STM Long Body 7* Refaced by Jimmy Jensen with Legere Signature 2.5

  8. #648
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellowhorn View Post
    Jason,

    It is nice to see you drop in here.

    As for the serial number during which King moved to Eastlake from Cleveland, Saxpics has it at around 426,000. Apparently, what this could mean is that some of the horns that some body tubes and bells were made in the Cleveland before the move were brought to and engraved Eastlake. So, it could be that some early Eastlake horns were actually made in Cleveland but stamped a serial number later than 426,XXX. Now this is just my own theory.

    Turnaround, are you around? You know more about Super 20's than anyone here, I think.

    On the flip side of this is some of us own horns that say Cleveland made which were purchased after 1964. I have a Sliver Sonic tenor #400009 which is a Cleveland horn that i purchased in Toronto brand new in 1967. Was it assembled in Eastlake? or was it assembled in Cleveland and my dealer had old stock? I picked this horn out of 5 which were available for me to try, which leads me to believe that King did some kind of a deal to move out the old stock around the time of the move.

  9. #649

    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    These dates are inaccurate. Production didn't start at Eastlake until 1966 or 1967. H.N. White may have purchased the land for a new factory in Eastlake in 1964, but it's unrealistic to think they started pumping horns out of that area the next day.

  10. #650

    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    I thought the super 20 club might like to see Cannonball's Strap and the bell of one of his horns

  11. #651
    Distinguished SOTW Member xax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Re. the King move to Eastlake. I was out to my friend Jack T's today and asked him about the correlation between the "Made in Cleveland" engraving on saxophone bells and the serial number lists. As i have mentioned in several past posts, Jack was an instrument tech(best of the half-dozen) at the Eastlake factory from ca.1968-75. He said that for all King instruments there were parts that were made in Cleveland that were in inventory and would occasionally end up on Eastlake horns, even as late as 1975.

    These included engraved bells. He said saxophones in particular might have a good many "made in Cleveland" parts because they were making substantially fewer saxophones than the other instruments (not sure if he meant all saxes or just S20s?). He added that "they were always complaining that they were losing money on saxophones"...

    Seems that the Cleveland plant was completely shut down for the move but they didn't take "every last stick". They sold off some outdated equipment because they had installed a lot of brand new machinery at Eastlake; he specifically mentioned buffing and lacquering equipment as among what was not taken to Eastlake. He bought some of that Cleveland equipment and to this day still owns a few pieces including a couple of mandrels for large brass and a humongous buffer.

    I was asking him whether he was still certain that the resonator pads in my recently acquired Series II full pearls tenor were original equipment (slightly domed metal resos). He said that for the "artist" horns they used a different pad...apparently harder felt and perhaps some other differences. He has a set from "back in the day" and tried to find them while I was there but to no avail. I'm sure they'll turn up and when they do I'll post pics/info about them. His comment about these was that he was told by the factory that they were "very expensive" and were only for the horns of King artists/endorsers.

    Other bits of info from past visits: he showed me a prototype for a certain King metal mouthpiece. It was hard rubber(or plastic?)...it was used as the model for some or other King metal mpc. Apparently, they had a department that designed mpcs? When i compared his to my very old brass(gold-plated) Wolfe Tayne 7, they looked very similar(inside). I think that unit came with my first Ser II S20FP tenor which i bought (used) ca1973. Recently, I saw a metal King tenor mpc on eBay and from "this distance" it looked "identical" to a WT, especially the joint on the side. As for whether or not that means anything, your guess is at least as good as mine.
    "There's not enough kindness in the world...".Dale Turner; "Round Midnight"

  12. #652
    Distinguished SOTW Member xax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    OK, here's my "new" King Super 20 tenor (313,XXX). I've never seen a King tri-pac case before so i thought i'd post this pic of my King in its case. It didn't come with the clarinet case but i remembered that my tech had a tri-pack clarinet case in the shop. It turned out to be a King...he'd used it for years to keep his Selmer in and he was willing to trade my older Selmer-Bundy case for this King case... Yaay!

    But y'all want to know, how does it play? Mmmm...plays real nice!
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  13. #653

    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Looks gorgeous!
    Saxlicker

    1964 MKVI Tenor, Robusto 7* and too much other stuff. Browse the Horns

  14. #654

    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    It's time for me to declare myself a fan.
    It's also taken 20 years to concede to myself and another 2 years to admit it!
    When I started playing I was as green as they come.
    In the 1st place a horn had to be shiny and the only place for sax's was 80's pop right .
    There after, everyone I was listening to played a Selmer or at least an expensive modern horns with great ergonomics.
    Worthy of note is the fact that back then, there was a huge gap between a Czechoslovakian made horn and entry level yamaha's and the like, let alone pro series prices.
    Well, despite admiring the look of some other vintage horns, the guys I listened to who were both famous and not so famous had set the ambition in my mind.

    Since then I have only bothered with well reputed modern horns including Selmers from SBA ---> to MKVII.
    I don't think any of them have been off the mark either, it was a good way to go and I have loved them all.
    I spent time over the years (pre internet days) trawling the sax shops in the south of England and every time I picked up a King, a Conn of whatever to try they were usually battered and the ergo's were way too much for me to handle.
    I just didn't get it, there was no competition for the direction I had taken regarding modern ergo's snubbing anything awkward.

    Well here we are in 2010 and one of those horns from the rejection list has just refused to leave me alone, The King super 20!
    Every time I embark on a journey of sax related resource, be it you tube, SOTW, recordings or what ever up pops the iconic name or a picture of one.
    It was a fair few years ago when I changed my mind on the looks of the things, this also ran just got more and more appealing year upon year.
    The sound was never really in doubt either but as Wilton Felder figured more and more in my ideals it went from being a great sound to the being the business. I still love plenty of other sounds (some are miles away from Wilton) mind you, but the King is the icing on the cake.
    Finally, with 22 years under my belt I caved in and bought one...
    I can do the ergo's on a series V at least without a problem.
    No monsterous issues with tuning and my other horns have been feeling neglected for a while now because I can't put the damn thing down.
    Saxlicker

    1964 MKVI Tenor, Robusto 7* and too much other stuff. Browse the Horns

  15. #655
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Quote Originally Posted by xax View Post
    OK, here's my "new" King Super 20 tenor (313,XXX).
    Congrats! It looks...Super. Original end plug as well, which are hard to come by.

  16. #656
    Distinguished SOTW Member xax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxlicker View Post
    Looks gorgeous!
    Quote Originally Posted by brasscane View Post
    Congrats! It looks...Super. Original end plug as well, which are hard to come by.
    Thanks guys, I'm really enjoying this horn...for the first coupla weeks i didn't even play it...just would look at it in disbelief.

    I've gotten over that initial shock and settled in for some (by my standards)serious wood-shedding. I went thru a month or so of testing Java reeds and have settled on 2 1/2 Java reds for my preferred tone. I had worked up to 3 1/2s and was not liking them all that much. Then last w/e, i listened back thru recording equipment and found that the edge/buzz was too light until i went back down to the 2 1/2s.

    Now, I'm liking things a whole lot more!
    "There's not enough kindness in the world...".Dale Turner; "Round Midnight"

  17. #657
    Insert cutesy caption du jour here TommyD69's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Quote Originally Posted by xax View Post
    Thanks guys, I'm really enjoying this horn...for the first coupla weeks i didn't even play it...just would look at it in disbelief.

    I've gotten over that initial shock and settled in for some (by my standards)serious wood-shedding. I went thru a month or so of testing Java reeds and have settled on 2 1/2 Java reds for my preferred tone. I had worked up to 3 1/2s and was not liking them all that much. Then last w/e, i listened back thru recording equipment and found that the edge/buzz was too light until i went back down to the 2 1/2s.

    Now, I'm liking things a whole lot more!
    What is the rest of your setup??? mouthpiece and lig? I really like that edgy buzzy sound.... I can get my hands on (I think) a pre 64 silversonic loaner from a friend... he is kinda funny about his horn which he hasn't played in more than 30 years. But he let me play it once.... I'd like to get it for a couple weeks/months and experiment... so any info you can give on a good setup would be appriciated....
    Musical Theory of Relativity: E=Fb

  18. #658
    "King In The Castle" & Distinguished SOTW Member Yellowhorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    Miami Dukoff D7 with Rico Plasticover or Royal.
    Tenor: Selmer Super Action 80 Serie I
    Alto: Selmer Super Action 80 Serie I
    Sop: None at the moment

  19. #659

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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    What a great post guys. I am in UK. For twenty five years i have wanted a "20". Done all other US big bores. The right "20"..has always eluded me. I played a "Zephyr" bari for years....until it got crushed. No Tahitian hoofers involved....that is one funny story man. Right now using " Martin47-50. And a "Phil Barone vintage"...copper finish. I would have agreed; the American big bore tenor....is a bygone thing. Made in Taiwan....it does not exactly count. Regardless....the "Bigness of it is remarkable". I am off....."Levelaire 9"....on tenor. I used same for years...great mpc. See you later....ade

  20. #660
    Prodigal Son and Forum Contributor 2008 martysax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Super 20 Fan Club

    The Super 20 is still the Selmer Killer on the blues/R&B stage.

    I'm using a Phil Barone Link-clone with Vando red 2 1/2s these daze. WooHoo!
    Just two questions: Where's the Bar located relative to the stage, and does the band get a discount?

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