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Thread: Ella Custom Saxophones

  1. #21
    SOTW Pragmatist cpete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ella Custom Saxophones

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinMusicMan View Post
    The OP asked about a brand of sax that no one on SOTW has ever heard of. There is nothing to say until someone actually plays one. We may never know ...
    Until we find out which 20 of the other 50 PROC brands is the exact same horn
    We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality. Ayn Rand.

  2. #22
    Distinguished SOTW Member and Champion of the C-Melody csax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ella Custom Saxophones

    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyLC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jahjahjahjah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JeremyLC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzroot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kwgrinnell View Post
    Intriguing? Maybe the country of origin? Although quality is on the rise, I refuse to by from PROC for pol/phil reasons.

    K
    42yrs of sax and going strong
    So then I guess you don't own a computer, cell phone, video game console, home theater system, television, or anything cool??
    You're trying to point out a logical inconsistency that doesn't exist.

    It is impossible, in the U.S. at least, to avoid Chinese made goods. If you try, at some point you will find that a good, or entire class of goods, you need is made solely in China. (check the labels whenever you go shopping, you'll be startled at what comes from China) That does not, however, make it illogical to buy non-Chinese goods when the option actually exists.
    Good post, by JeremyLC. Critical thinking skills are in short supply in the world, shorter even than non-PROC made goods, possibly.

    On the other hand it's also a valid point that it's hard to know how much of the saxophones credited with non-PROC manufacturing may actually have PROC parts on them -- including saxophones of manufacture other than Asian in accrediting. So, the rhetorical point that the political stance is merely political, not effective, might also be on the valid side. Most of us (me, included) just don't know.

    Where are the keys on different makes actually manufactured? Do you know? I'm a dealer, and I don't. Some of the dealers who say they do, don't. Some of the dealers/industry people who do know won't say. Some of those who claim to know and do say are lying.
    That kind of restates my point, though. You may not always have a choice, but that doesn't wrong to make a choice when you can. If I can't avoid "buying" keys from China, I can still avoid buying the rest of the horn. Though, it may eventually come down to all the parts being made in China and the horn being "made" wherever they screw them together
    Are you guys going for the Guinness Book of Records entry on nested quotes...?
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    Martin, Kohlert & King C tenors / Martin Bb tenor /SG Orpheo alto / Aquilasax C sop & Mirage curvie Bb sop - Lawton, Berg, Couf, Jody Jazz, Meyer mpcs. RR/LaVoz reeds.

  3. #23
    Distinguished SOTW Technician ptung's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ella Custom Saxophones

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinMusicMan View Post
    The OP asked about a brand of sax that no one on SOTW has ever heard of. There is nothing to say until someone actually plays one. We may never know ...
    IMO, it's pretty unlikely the OP was any one but the company owner, or someone associated with him.

    "Well, nearly every woodwind and brass instrument comes out of Asia these days. I've been hearing a lot of anti-PROC comments at school lately, but honestly, the problem isn't China. Blaming the other party is just something we Americans have become quite good at."

    That is not the only reason to boycott products from mainland China, although you may be correct in presuming that to be KW's reasoning.

    There are business/manufacturing practices (with toxic materials, for e.g., see for example media coverage of PROC sheetrock in post-Katrina construction), political practices (persecution of political dissidents), etc. etc. etc., that may all be just as valid reasons for philosophical objection, if not even more valid reasons than that economic effects on the US.

    I saw that as someone whose parents despised the practices of Mao Tse Tung, and the quelling of dissent in the years afterward, but who also has a PROC-made saxophone to sell.

    The PROC has at least one company on its soil that is making very solid saxophones, and the terrible wages people earn there (as compared to the rest of the world), are the reason that that saxophone is the best dollar-for-dollar value on the market right now.

    Are there valid reasons to boycott that product for some? Sure there are. Are they as simple as "PROC = evil...must boycott!" Obviously not. Neither are any of the questions that would arise out of accusations of evil empires at all simple.

    I'm a Chinese, born of Chinese immigrants, who were very educated and remained tied to Chinese political culture (my ma through diplomatic duties in her profession, for example) all their lives, and as such I would tell you that, yes, I believe the Chinese government has bad intentions toward the rest of the world; based on its past actions and policies, it intends to act in its own interest, without regard for the interests of others, and to the harm of the interests of others. On the other hand, as an American with a solid education in American history, and political culture, I would also testify that American leaders (in their actual practices), evidence a bad intention toward the rest of the world.

    So, again, none of these moral stance questions are simple.

    On the other hand, if I discover that the manufacturer whose brand I'm carrying uses what I would consider a "sweat shop" -- forced labor, akin to human slavery -- I will have to stop carrying their saxophones.

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