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The Saxophone in Christian Music?

67K views 144 replies 57 participants last post by  kerry 
#1 ·
Is there a place in modern Praise & Worship church bands for a saxophone?

My saxophone experience in a church begins at an independent fundamental Baptist church in about 1976. I played the Gaither song "There's Something About That Name" with a piano accompaniment. After the service a well intentioned church member stopped me and said "I was going straight to hell" for playing the instrument of the devil in the Lord's house". I was devastated at the time by this comment.

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#41 ·
Yep, can't say I've ever played it quite like that...
(And not just because I'm on alto only).

I tend to play around the melody (and often fairly close to it) to keep the *singers on track with varying degrees of movement away from the melody depending on how well the singers are holding the melody.

We have a keyboard running just chords, a bass guitarist, a single electric guitar running just chords and a #drummer to either keep us in time or to drive me absolutely bonkers and make me have to tongue notes really firmly and blatantly while deliberately and very obviously nodding my head on-beat to bring the drummer up to or back down to the right tempo. Oh, yeah, the band includes me on wind, the whole wind and nothing but the wind - mostly alto sax but the clarinet does make appearances from time to time... I am pleased that I sometimes get told the saxophone is missed when it is not there...

I've been recording the sessions for a while to give kids a backing track to play against to gain confidence in their playing at home - they can play along to something they are familiar with hearing. The way I record, with my Zoom H4n on the ground in front of me when we play, I get a good mix of the band with the saxophone holding around the melody a little more prominent than the rest of the band. I'm now just breaking the long tracks down into individual tracks so I can pop them onto a CD that budding musicians can play along to... I've got a senior who used to play cornet long ago that I'm trying to encourage back to playing - the play-along tracks might just get her there.

*I'm sure He appreciates the vocals much more than I often do... :D

#Depending on which drummer we are blessed/not so blessed with on the day... :(

[Oops, sorry for the long-windedness. I've been rambling again, haven't I?] :(
 
#42 ·
Here's something that I think you guys will enjoy, its the preview for Kirk Whalum's the Gospel According to Jazz 3 CD/DVD. He talks about how the Lord is the "great improvisor" and how his music is a vessel that brings the gospel to others; great testimony and great music!

 
#44 ·
Let my tell you all a short story prior to go work...:|

I had a visitor here years ago, a senior Baptist pastor in his age of 80.
He had a heart attack years ago and experienced death for minutes. He tells he was in Heaven and can tell pretty nice what he saw there.
Amazing story from Pastor John.

Well, I went to a music store and he acompanied me.
As he saw the various brass and woodwind instruments he said...


WOW! this instrument looks pretty similar to the instrument I saw in heaven!!!:)

Do you believe that?
I sincerely do. Because if life on earth can be good and pretty why should be life worse in heaven?

Playing the sax is wonderful on earth, the is gonna be much better in heaven.

Jesus knows how much I do like to play in the church and I am expecting to get a golden sax in heaven, with diamonds as pearl keytouches;)
from a special alloy. Copper? yellow brass, rose brass? no, no.
somth special.

I also hope to get better Playing skills.:D

Anyway I will have the whole eternity to practice. haha:angel4:
 
#45 ·
Wow...

This thread has stayed civil and polite. That says a lot about the SOTW members. You guys are all a cut above in my book.

I am saddened greatly by those of you that have had bad experiences trying to use your God-given talent in church only to be accosted by others. And I am also sadden by those turned off by church in general because they haven't experienced true worship the way it ought to be. You and your saxophones would all be welcome in my church.

The Christian Bible contains following references to music and musical instruments (modern terms are used here):

choir(s)
cymbal(s)
flute(s)
gong
harp(ist, ists, s)
horn, ram's horns
hymn(s)
instruments,
stringed instruments
music of the strings
the strings
lutes
lyre(s)
music(al, ian, ians)
pipes
players
psalm(s)
sang
sing(er, ers, ing, s)
sistrums
song(s)
sung
tambourine(s)
trumpet(s) [musical applications only]
trumpeters
zither

I wouldn't want to be the one who told someone they couldn't use their instrument in church. And I probably wouldn't want to stand near them during a lightning storm. ;)
 
#46 ·
great list Enviroguy. Wonderful.

It shows that music is in the essence of the Bible.

I even heard a preacher telling a Bible text in Hebraic about Lucifer(indeed a nice name: Lucifer is a Latin word meaning "light-bearer", "day star" or "morning star).

After the interpretation of the original text (I don´t remember the Bible reference now, sorry) Lucifer had in his own body flutes and wind instruments. He was also the worship leader in heaven.He must be the most incredible and wonderful creature of all creatures.

Music is the essence of the glory.

As my grandpa always used to comment decades ago...(he was a teacher and professional musician on service for several churches, almost for free)

Music is made of... Melody, Harmony and Rhythm and that is the way I like to deploy my sax.
 
#50 ·
great list Enviroguy. Wonderful.

It shows that music is in the essence of the Bible.

I even heard a preacher telling a Bible text in Hebraic about Lucifer(indeed a nice name: Lucifer is a Latin word meaning "light-bearer", "day star" or "morning star).

After the interpretation of the original text (I don´t remember the Bible reference now, sorry) Lucifer had in his own body flutes and wind instruments. He was also the worship leader in heaven.He must be the most incredible and wonderful creature of all creatures.
Amen. This is why rock, jazz, metal, rap(if that can be called music), etc. have all been called "The Devil's Music." All they are are perversions of music meant to glorify the Lord, probably been around since the before time, but malformed into something seen as evil. And being open-miinded to the reclamation of these musical forms is unbelievably important.

But I can't believe nobody's mentioned Denver and the Mile High Orchestra. Christian Big Band, anyone?
 
#48 ·
Check this guy out. Tim McWright with the Cornerstone Church Choir & Orchestra in San Antonio, Texas. He plays a burning alto solo from 2:30-3:10 in the video. While he burns on alto...I doubt anyone in that huge congregation thinks he'll be burning in hell for it.



I knew Tim when I was in the Army. He was an instructor at the Armed Forces School of Music back in the 70's. We performed together once in a student/faculty jazz band.
 
#49 ·
When you're talking about Christian Music, its important to distinguish the difference between:

1) Christian-themed entertainment;
2) Inspirational performance/recital;
3) Accompaniment in corporate praise and worship.

Obviously, each of these requires different roles for instrumentalists. Heuristics for applying sax successfully in one does not necessarily translate to another.

The OP's blog post deals with #3 in a contemporary context, and I think most of us end up doing something similar to what he described.
 
#51 ·
When you're talking about Christian Music, its important to distinguish the difference between:

1) Christian-themed entertainment;
2) Inspirational performance/recital;
3) Accompaniment in corporate praise and worship.
Good list of categories, DesertCreature! It's pretty obvious when something falls in #3. I think #1 and #2 cause a lot of controversy. A lot of people get rattled when they think there is an attempt to pass off Christian themed entertainment as inspirational performance in a worship setting.

Use that fine video that CooolJazzz posted - is it #1 or #2? I'd guess opinions differ. How about the "Halleluiah Chorus" or one of the arias from Handel's "Messiah" performed in a worship service - #1 or #2? I think a case could be made for either.

Not to defend the judgmental soul in pmaine's original post, but it could be that he/she was only able to see the saxophone as a "tool of entertainment." From that perspective (misguided in my view), it would be considered by some to be offensive to use it in worship.
 
#52 ·
I think every instrument can be offensive in the worship if not used in the right mood. a guitar or bass or drums played without the goal to reach the Person who is the target of our music... God.
Some people do live a life of adictions ,impurity ... I´m not judging such people but worship should be in best case clean, made with the heart and soul. Not abusive.
Worship in Spirit and in Truth can´t be offensive, if we are talking of Christian Music at all.

I recall I saw a child playing in a Church service in Africa. It was in a tent. The people were poor and the child had a metal tube he used to blow in. It was not the best soundcore at all :TGNCHK: but I am pretty sure this child reached the center of God´s heart.

The attitude! the attitude.;)
 
#53 ·
Not wanting to get involved in the arguments that are going on here (as probably one of the few SOTW's with a theological degree, I'm learning to steer WELL clear of most of this stuff)....but just to plug a guy who has done some lovely 'classical' recordings of old Anglican hymns, with vocals and organ, Christian Forshaw (no relation!) Christian is a tutor at London's Guildhall school of music and is well worth checking out and he has most of his albums on itunes....I'd highly recommend Renouncement
 
#58 ·
#59 ·
I saw a worship band with a sax player on a festival two weeks ago. That guy played horrible, it wasn't even funny anymore. I've heard 8 year olds with better intonation and more chops overall. That's all I know about 'christian sax'.

Oh! And I met this guy a while ago Edwin Sepulveda. Really nice guy, and though his recordings don't show it that much, he has chops for days.
 
#63 ·
I wonder if the other theologians on here remember their Hebrew classes??? and the fact that scholars have no idea what the instruments played in biblical times actually are....we are working on a best guess (@ best) and anyone who classes any instrument as more 'holy' than another is seriously misguided....I did my thesis on Coltrane's A Love Supreme focusing on how the use of a 'secular' piece......
 
#66 ·
I feel that a capella singing is the most beautiful and spiritual singing, regardless of whether it's done as a Gregorian chant, Fasola singing, Muslim chants, Sufi Dervish chants, or Tibetan harmonic chant.

My fear in having praise bands is that the music becomes entertainment for the non-musician. How does one tell whether their music is having an uplifting effect or an entertaining effect?
 
#67 ·
...
My fear in having praise bands is that the music becomes entertainment for the non-musician. How does one tell whether their music is having an uplifting effect or an entertaining effect?
The congregation. They enter into praise or they don't. I think it more important that I hear them than they hear me. In corporate P&W they are part of the "gig", not the audience, so you listen and adjust as you do with band mates.

Not that there's anything wrong with entertainment. There's a place for it even in church. That's why I draw the trichotomy I do between entertainment, inspirationals, and accompaniment. Each presents a different set of objectives, which obviously drives what and how you play.

And that's the essential difference playing Christian music - your objectives. The skills we use to achieve those objectives are the same as always.
 
#70 ·
Yesterday was the introduction of the "Horn Section" to the contemporary services at Menlo Park (CA) Presbyterian Church. The main praise number was "You are Good" by Israel Houghton. Along with the vocalists and rhythm section were two top notch trumpets and myself on tenor. We used the Lakewood transcription, and it really rocked, complete with the trumpets hitting the double F# on the last note (song is in concert E). The congregation was really with it, and it set an uplifting, energized tone for the rest of the service.

Sidepipes
 
#71 ·
That sounds great, Sidepipes.

I can't wait until my daughter can hit the high notes like that. Then I can do stuff like that too. :)
 
#73 ·
Interesting thread. I have been playing one or all of my saxophones in church since high school (and I won't say how many years that was), playing all genres from John Peterson hymns, Gaither Southern Gospel, right up to the things that MW Smith, Mercy Me, Newsboys etc. are producing today. Solos with piano/pipe organ, fills/solos with contemporary praise bands, as a member of wind ensembles/small orchestras, everything. I have never been told (at least to my face) that the saxophone was from the Devil NOR have I been told I was going to Hell. In fact, it wasn't until I bought and read Michael Segell's book THE DEVIL'S HORN did I realize why anyone would even think of such of thing.

My personal mission in the past few years has been to make sure the saxophone is played well, with all of the reverance that our Lord deserves, in order to make sure no one even thinks of negative things. And things are just fine with this approach.

SO...I think we simply need to keep on worshipping God with one of the best instruments ever invented and to play with enough excellence as to keep the listeners/fellow worshippers from thinking of anything satanic.
 
#76 ·
I got a gig tonight in Red Bank, NJ for a new church that is starting in that area and is having a week long celebration of music and guest speakers. Can't wait to rock out for the Lord. Tommy Barnett and his son Matthew are supposed to be there.
 
#77 ·
All the Bible verses concern making music, not listening to it. Everyone is commanded to make music, in my reading.
 
#83 ·
All the Bible verses concern making music, not listening to it. Everyone is commanded to make music, in my reading.
then sing, jerk
Every day, every way.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
II Timothy 2:15

How does one tell whether their music is having an uplifting effect or an entertaining effect?

The answer is obvious.
You can't tell. Therefore, all Christians must participate in the music making. The entire congregation must participate in the praising, not just a select few.

"I want to learn to swim. There -- out to sea -- I have heard tell of a magnificent island.
You seem reluctant. Do you want to bargain about it?
No, I truly want to learn. I truly want to go. However, I have to take my ton of cabbage.
What cabbage?
The food which I will need when I am on the other island.
There is better food there.
I don't know what you mean. I cannot be sure. I must take my cabbage.
You cannot swim with a ton of cabbage.
Then I cannot go."
 
#78 ·
suprising to hear that this would even be an issue, except maybe in certain isolated groups that may consider telephones and new shoes as evil.

people can take anything in all of creation and use it for evil or good, to glorify God or to test God. pornography is evil, but God invented sex for good (marriage).

but, maybe you should carry a set of spoons as backup just in case someone spots a devil in yer horn. i don't think spoons were invented by the devil?
 
#79 ·
At my church, sax as a standalone accompanying instrument is a past thing. You'll see it in a horn line, which happens maybe once a month. The reason is that the music sticks pretty closely to a certain form of the latest songs coming out, and none of that music has sax. It's mostly guitar driven. So, in the mind of the music director, if he doesn't hear it on the original recordings, he pretty much doesn't do it.

At least I can play keyboards, so I can still make music that way.

There is a bit of a negative undercurrent at our church concerning the sax but that's mostly among the older generation. Guess they haven't gotten over the lifestyles of some of the jazz players of their era enough to see that is isn't the instrument, it's the player.

However, now that the sax heydays of the 80's and 90's are done (at least as far as a lot of christian pop and worship music goes) the sax seems less well accepted even among some of the younger crowd. I find this interesting since, at our church, it was a must-have not too long ago.
 
#81 ·
actually, i've noticed the same thing in my church. and there are very seldom any instrumental solos, if at all. for that matter, there aren't any vocal improv's. almost always by the book.

that may be more of the staff worship leader's style than anything else. the previous WL had a much more energetic, entertaining style that allowed for solos/improv (and it was much more engaging and lively IMO). with the new WL (maybe 2-3yrs now), the sax player has stopped playing. the band does a lot of contemporary christian music.
 
#92 ·
Devil's music?

An old writer noted for having bad knees once wrote that every good gift and every perfect gift is from above.

Respectfully, if there is such a thing as "Devil's music" it probably has to do with a certain parable that talks about how unwashed hands will never defile us, but there's things that can come from our hearts that can. If you're interested, just Google "parable unwashed hands".

Just like with any good performance, for a worship service you should know your audience and choose music that will reach them, whether it's Christian hip-hop or old southern gospel. There is no "bad" music type for worship as long as it has the Christian message you want to give and it can reach the audience you are performing for. ;)
 
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