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  1. #1

    Default the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Hi,

    For a decent vintage Sax, (a good example is Selmer Mark VI), the value will be stable (or even higher) when time goes.

    How would be a "vintage wooden" clarinet?

    I ask, because, when I check the ebay, there are so many very cheap vintage clarinet (I am mainly looking at bass clarinet). Is that because of the "wood" will degrade as time goes?

    AND, how about a "greenline" clarinet?
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  2. #2
    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by saxophonedaniel View Post
    I ask, because, when I check the ebay, there are so many very cheap vintage clarinet (I am mainly looking at bass clarinet). Is that because of the "wood" will degrade as time goes?
    There is a difference between "vintage" and "old".

    A "very cheap vintage" clarinet is most likely just "old."

    No, the wood does not degrade with time. A good clarinet, if well maintained, can remain a good clarinet. For example, Buffet R13 clarinets from the 1950-1960s are highly prized (although much more affordable than similarly vintage, quality saxophones).
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

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    Distinguished SOTW member daigle65's Avatar
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    There is the contentious idea of a clarinet being "blown-out" that could affect the value of a vintage clarinet.
    http://clarinetcorner.wordpress.com/...net-blown-out/
    " M'enfin ! " ....Gaston Lagaffe

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    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by daigle65 View Post
    There is the contentious idea...
    "First and foremost there are those who believe that a clarinet can become “blown-out”, and there are many who do not believe that it is possible or that a clarinet that demonstrates less than acceptable playing characteristics is not blown out, but in need of various corrections to be made."
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    and of course, the wood can crack. This is not really a big deal if the clar is repaired and maintained correctly.
    Life is too short for long tones

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    Distinguished SOTW Member Dr G's Avatar
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    They can burn too.
    Go for The Tone,

    g



    "When you are doing well, don't forget to do good." - Sichan Siv.

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Clarinetist, as a group, don't seem to have the reverence for vintage instruments that saxophone players do. One reason may be that wood is subject to more change than metal as it ages. Another reason is that clarinetists often believe in progress -- justified or not.
    "Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your intelligence to buy a drink ..." e.e. cummings

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    Distinguished SOTW Member/Forum Contributor 2010 Canadiain's Avatar
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by retread View Post
    Clarinetist, as a group, don't seem to have the reverence for vintage instruments that saxophone players do. One reason may be that wood is subject to more change than metal as it ages. Another reason is that clarinetists often believe in progress -- justified or not.
    Maybe they are just wishing for progress.... Sax players on the other hand delude themselves that all Selmers were great back in the day and wish for the days of the mkVI again...

  9. #9

    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    I baught a buffet Crampon RC in 1986 for about 1270 usd I just sold it for 1400 usd to help finance my new Tosca So i suppose it kept its value.
    But on the other hand i think you could buy allot more for 1270 usd in 1986 than you can buy for 1400 usd today.
    Andy

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Provided the bore is not warped or other nasty things happening to the wood, a pro-level vintage clarinet that has been maintained can have a beautiful quality of sound and be a fine instrument. My 1970's Couesnon Monopole clarinet is a good example. It's sound is gorgeous and the quality of its wood is much higher than the wood typically being used in current production clarinets.

    When it comes to bass clarinets, a number of keywork design improvements have been made in recent years. It's possible than an older one can still be a good instrument. If I was looking for a new bass clarinet I'd start with how much money I can afford for one. Then, I would carefully research my options. Keep in mind that many instruments on ebay will need some amount of repair work. So, factor that in to your price calculations. Personally, I'm impressed with the Yamaha 221 II bass clarinet. While it has a plastic body, it has a decent quality of sound and a solid construction. It's price is around $1,600 (I haven't checked lately). I consider it to be a good deal for the price.

    It's also important to have a good quality bass clarinet mouthpiece. A good BC mouthpiece can make all the difference in the world regarding certain things that are often problems with BC performance...such as the upper clarion range. Therefore, factoring $250 +/- for a mouthpiece is also a good idea.

    Buffet has started making a Greenline bass clarinet however they are hard to find. I think that Walter Grabner may be selling some. The Buffet 1193 model is around $9,000.

    Roger
    1936 G.H. Huller alto saxophone, Ralph Morgan 6C mouthpiece, #3 1/2 Legere Signature reeds, Theo Wanne ligature
    1969 Couesnon Monopole Bb clarinet, Walter Grabner K14 mouthpiece, #3 Legere (old) Quebec, Klassik string ligature
    Yamaha bass clarinet, Walter Grabner LB mouthpiece, #3 1/2 Legere standard tenor, Optimum ligature
    Yamaha flute, diMedici alto flute

    Visit my website and listen to my originals: http://www.rogeraldridge.com

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    It will be interesting to see what a Pete Fountain "Big Easy" goes for in a "few years."
    "Zoot" would a good name for a kid...

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    As far as I know, there is less debate in the vintage Sax world unless you "ding" or "dent" it.

    We can always debate if we "maintain" it well, the value is there (or even higher). But I think we should look at the "average" situation. And this also reflected in the ebay price of old clarinet.

    So, could we draw a conclusion that, for a "normal" or "average" situation, we should prepare to let the value of a "wooden" clarinet to devalue as time goes ......

    It will be interesting to observe the value of a "greenline" or "plastic" clarinet (like Yamaha 221 bass), if it is the "wood" cause the devalue. We do not have much data on this, as "greenline" is not a long history.

    Or is it just that mindset of clarinetist that a "old" clarinet will be very problematic as compare to a "old" Sax.................... if this is the case, then, we should buy the "vintage" clarinet in ebay, as the price is really only about 1/10 of a new one (i.e. it is value for money.)
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  13. #13

    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    I know plenty of clarinet players who seek out vintage instruments. As to value, the vintage instruments increase in value, as long as they were good instruments to begin with and therefore, this is a demand for them.

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Actually, they're often kind of like cars. Very expensive brand new (e.g. new Buffet R-13, $3000 and up); then they depreciate and become gradually cheaper for the next 10, 20, 30, 50 years or more (depending on brand); THEN maybe the buying public decides they're "collectible" and the price starts going up again, or instead, the public has no interest and they become nearly worthless antiques (this would be the majority of old clarinets out there, I'm sorry to say). Vintage clarinets can PLAY great, or merely well, or badly following a proper overhaul; just like a new clarinet. But I would disagree with Mr. Clarnut above (whom I believe makes a living selling vintage clarinets) -- in my opinion people generally pay MUCH more money for new clarinets.

    This relationship is not the same as in the sax world, where very often vintage instruments DO command much higher prices than new horns.
    Dave Spiegelthal

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Spiegelthal View Post

    This relationship is not the same as in the sax world, where very often vintage instruments DO command much higher prices than new horns.

    Hi,

    That's the question in my mind..............

    what is the main factors behind this?
    First you need to learn the tendancies of your instrument, learn how to adjust and over time it becomes integrated.
    Fill the horn up with air. Not necessarily louder but simply with a fuller sound.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    There is a notion among some clarinetists and teachers that one needs to change clarinets about every 7 years. It's part of the concept of how clarinets can be "blown out" after years of a heavy performance schedule. I cannot help but wonder if it's being promoted by clarinet companies or shop owners. Personally, I don't buy into this as I'm perfectly happy with my 40-50 year old clarinets.

    On the saxophone side, some vintage models are absolutely GREAT horns and have qualities that are not often found in current production models.

    The key thing in all of this is the horn (clarinet or saxophone) had to be a superior pro-level instrument when it was produced. The other factor is it needs to have special qualities that are hard to find in modern horns. An intermediate-level horn is not going to increase in value over time.

    I also need to mention brand name recognition. This is where marketing hype can came in. Take the Selmer Mark VI. Some Mark VIs are truly great horns. However, some are not that good at all. It comes down to particular individual instruments being exceptional. With that in mind, vintage Buffet clarinets -- in particular, R13s -- will command a higher price than clarinets not as well known. Thus, market demand = higher prices. This can work to one's advantage in finding vintage clarinets that are not on everyone's radar that are high quality instruments and being able to get one one for a price that's a fraction of an R13. I got my 70's Couesnon Monopole for only $450. It plays every bit as good as a comparable R13.

    Roger
    1936 G.H. Huller alto saxophone, Ralph Morgan 6C mouthpiece, #3 1/2 Legere Signature reeds, Theo Wanne ligature
    1969 Couesnon Monopole Bb clarinet, Walter Grabner K14 mouthpiece, #3 Legere (old) Quebec, Klassik string ligature
    Yamaha bass clarinet, Walter Grabner LB mouthpiece, #3 1/2 Legere standard tenor, Optimum ligature
    Yamaha flute, diMedici alto flute

    Visit my website and listen to my originals: http://www.rogeraldridge.com

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Aldridge View Post
    There is a notion among some clarinetists and teachers that one needs to change clarinets about every 7 years. It's part of the concept of how clarinets can be "blown out" after years of a heavy performance schedule. I cannot help but wonder if it's being promoted by clarinet companies or shop owners. Personally, I don't buy into this as I'm perfectly happy with my 40-50 year old clarinets.
    A seven year old clarinet will have accumulated so many wrong notes, out-of-rhythm staccatos (staccatoes?) and squeaks that it can't possibly play good any more, so it's best to buy a brand spanking new one and throw the old one away.

    Exclusively for SOTW I offer (at nominal cost) to properly and environmentally responsibly dispose of your old blown-out clarinet. Just PM me and I'll give you my mail address.
    Ben

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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Ben is quite correct --- clarinets (especially wood ones) gradually absorb wrong notes and squeaks and eventually become unplayable. Even soaking them for months with Boar Oil (made from pig spit, hence the name) will not kill all the absorbed mistakes. So, as he suggests, please send all your old, blown-out clarinets to Ben.

    Metal clarinets, being metal, will not absorb wrong notes (of course); however, the metal itself will anneal (become softer) from years of bad honking, and will eventually bend or collapse (like undercooked lasagna). Once again, please send these to Ben for environmental remediation.
    Dave Spiegelthal

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    Distinguished SOTW member daigle65's Avatar
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    Default Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Aldridge View Post
    ... the quality of its wood is much higher than the wood typically being used in current production clarinets....
    Climate changes will probably affect the availability and quality of ebony (if it hasn't already), so I'm guessing that this will influence the price of vintage clarinets.
    " M'enfin ! " ....Gaston Lagaffe

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    Talking Re: the value of a (wood) clarinet will increase or decrease when it gets older?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Spiegelthal View Post
    Metal clarinets, being metal, will not absorb wrong notes (of course); however, the metal itself will anneal (become softer) from years of bad honking, and will eventually bend or collapse (like undercooked lasagna). Once again, please send these to Ben for environmental remediation.
    You may wonder why only metal clarinets are susceptible to bending while saxes appear to immune. The reason is that clarinets have a cylindrical boar who will eventually get stuck in there as it grows. A sax can be shaked or squeezed a bit and the piglet pops right out. (ask your technician what those homemade pads are made from)
    Ben

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