What other top of the line instruments are as "cheap" as saxophones?

[Turnaround]

I just read some more threads about how expensive Mark VIs are becoming... yada, yada, yada...

I get tired of reading these threads. And sometimes it's a post that sneaks in and it ruins the vibe for me. Just someone else that wants the best or rarest or both for nothing.

I think the saxophone remains the cheapest top of the line instrument available. It has not reached it's potential collection market value yet. That's just my opinion, and those who complain about not being able to afford that mint SBA or MK VI for $15K, well that's their opinion as well.

What other instrument shares a similar price range? Yes we could say harmonicas and such, and we could get silly about it, and this thread will go nowhere.

What other popular instrument whose TOP examples and most sought after models are as cheap as the sax?

[HeavyWeather77]

Good point, even vintage electric guitars can totally blow away SBAs. A 1950s Fender Stratocaster can be worth fifty grand if it's in good condition, from the right year, and in the right color. That being said, you can get a really, really great professional guitar for a thousand bucks brand new, if you know what you're looking for.

Also, clarinets aren't very expensive. If you're an orchestral clarinet player, you can get a full line of professional clarinets (assuming you don't go for the super-ultra-deluxe model of everything) for relatively little money, and there's not much vintage hype there.

Top-level lectric basses can be had for relatively cheap, too. You can sometimes find a Roscoe, which is one of the absolute best instruments there is, for around two thousand bucks used, or you could get an American jazz bass for much less. Vintage electric basses aren't nearly as expensive as vintage guitars, usually. Uprights are, of course, an entirely different story, as with all orchestral stringed instruments. Glad I didn't go that route.

[themacintrasher]

Electric basses are.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Here's my opinion on why saxes are relatively "cheap" compared to others, although I'll argue against that at the end, because I do disagree. When you look at the other instruments, I'm bringing in double reeds, and strings mainly, as compared to you sax you end up with one major major dilemma. I'm continuing use of the Mark VI as our top valued sax. There were around 200 thousand Mark VI's made. They are also less than 50 years old. Prices will continue to climb as horns are lost due to whatever and the scarcity factor starts to come in.

Top end double reeds and string instruments are for all intents and purposes hand made instruments. Many of the more desirable instruments are well over 100 years old, and they are rather uncommon. Mark VI's are still very readily available, and that will keep the price down. The other thing is that there are so many other horns available. Some people swear by King Super20's, others will swear by Buescher and Conn. There are so many different sounds that saxes can make, and certain horns are arguably better for certain applications, which also drives prices down for the VI's because not everyone is looking for them.

Anywho, other instruments
Bagpipes-Top prices are around the VI ranges ish, but those are very rare to find
Trombones
French Horns
Baritones/Euphoniums
Trumpets-excluding monettes
Clarinets-for reasons explained below

Brass instruments have remained relatively unchanged, and as such their prices are much lower. There is also the relative simplicity in making them that you don't find on woodwinds. Most of the things they can adjust is bore size, wall thickness, valve type and materials, and different metal composition. Saxes have all of that plus tone hole placements, key placement as well as mechanism design. *Tubas are excluded, because well, 30+ pounds of metal costs a lot

For most clarinets, the top price you will see is well below 12k. A lot of the professional clarinet players keep changing their instruments out saying that the wood doesn't last for more than a decade of daily playing. That being said, Clarinets haven't exactly change a whole lot in the last half century or so, and a modern R13 is pretty much the standard, but the top Leblancs are pushing 10k.

The kicker about all of this. A lot of professionals aren't playing on Mark VI's anymore. Many of them have found modern horns that fit their bill better. Jeff Coffin was at NC State last year and played with our big band. He plays Yamaha 82z's. Our lead tenor plays an OLD 5 digit VI that is practically green. He asked to play Jeff's tenor and the next week bought one. Jeff told us in the masterclass something along the lines of. "If we haven't been able to come up with any improvements in saxophone in the last 50 years, something is seriously wrong, the thing hasn't been around 150 years yet, it can't be perfect." I know I'm going to get hammered for saying that, but I share that opinion. I know the VI's have character that a lot of the new production models don't, and the new horns might not have the same sound that the "perfect" VI's do, but if Yamaha can produce 5 thousand horns, all of which play almost identical to each other, and all of them sound good, then that's impressive.

If we keep trying to mimick the old 5 digits we are never going to get anywhere. The company will keep trying to make minor adjustments to get the intonation perfect, but the same basic principle is there. Before the Mark VI there were all kinds of wild designs that were out there, and a lot of things got added and removed because the design wasn't perfect. It seems now that most of the modern horns pretty much look like a VI. Sure there have been some minor changes, but nothing really major has happened yet.

And that was WAY off topic, so I'm going to stop now.

[Turnaround]

Electric basses are.

I guess your not in the market for any 60s Fender P basses.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/__fender-...Q_sopZ3QQ_scZ1

$15,000 saxes come in every other month or so (unless it's a re-list).

That's a good many more basses than saxes. Also, back in the day, a new sax was 5 times more expensive as a new bass.

Take a look at completed listings as well.

A bolt on bass is WAY easier to build than a Mark VI.

SaxPlayer1004 - a very thought out and good argument. Thank you. You seem to agree with me that the collector value of the saxophone has a long way to go before reaching it potential. I enjoyed reading your post very much.

[SaxPlayer1004]

I think that the Mark VI's will continue to climb for a while. Also if Gary Ray @ Wichita keeps getting his hands on these near Mint VI's, and people keep their VI's in the closet, which is what my tenor is currently doing except for random gigs, prices will only go up. Serial number voodoo aside, the crappy VI's will be discarded the nice ones will then be more expensive. Who's to say the Stradivarius company didn't have any duds back in the day. The other problem that's going to happen, is the VI's will get to the point where there are no sales.

If you ask a lot of the top violin players, most will never sell their instruments, and had to near kill someone to buy the one they own. The only sax that is anywhere close to that is the Conn-O-Sax, and that is practically worthless from a players standpoint. We'll see. In the meantime, I have my VI tenor, and I'll play it for as long as I can, or until I find a horn that really gives it a run for it's money.

[Turnaround]

Just to add to the list of great/sought after horns, the pearled Super 20 and Silversonics are also in my list of "TOP" contenders. There are much fewer of them than the VIs (specially the pearled Silversonics).

But I'm trying to do a little shepherding here by saying that I would not like this to become a "My horn is great because..."

I think there should be an awareness of how good we have it as sax players. Specially now that people are selling their closet horns to pay the bills. Not that it's a good thing, just a sign of the times.

Mouthpieces I think are reaching a high though, mostly because they are becoming very easy to duplicate, and the doubt of whether a buyer is getting an original or an excellent copy will keep prices at bay. Harder to do with saxophones.

[marton]

hang on, i know the answer; is it a zither?

[Turnaround]

hang on, i know the answer; is it a zither?

You're a black sheep, aren't you? That took a little research. An instrument made for the common man. Well done. Actually, now I have 2 on my watch list on ebay and also looking at some autoharps.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Marsh Woodwinds in Raleigh has a couple of autoharps in their shop btw if you come up this way at all. Also have a Hunter Bass that they are trying to sell for 6k I think. I played it today, it's a beast. Same factory and horn as the IW661. No I don't work for them, just mentioning.

[marton]

You're a black sheep, aren't you? That took a little research. An instrument made for the common man. Well done. Actually, now I have 2 on my watch list on ebay and also looking at some autoharps.

lucky guess. i was thinking maybe banjo, but the zither sprang to mind as well.

[warp x]

The only sax that is anywhere close to that is the Conn-O-Sax, and that is practically worthless from a players standpoint.

You obviously haven't played one, or you would never say that. The Conn-o-Sax is a great and very usable instrument.

On topic, drums are not really very expensive. Cymbals more so, but still not in the range of VI's.

[eddierich]

The kicker about all of this. A lot of professionals aren't playing on Mark VI's anymore. Many of them have found modern horns that fit their bill better. Jeff Coffin was at NC State last year and played with our big band. He plays Yamaha 82z's. Our lead tenor plays an OLD 5 digit VI that is practically green. He asked to play Jeff's tenor and the next week bought one.

This is kind of off topic, but I have played Jeff's horn and it is one of the best saxophones I've ever played. It's one of the Z prototypes.

Anyway... I have often thought about this same subject, mainly from the perspective of being a flutist. To get a top of the line Powell, Haynes, Brannen, Muramatsu, etc., etc., you would spend at least $10,000 new and $7K or 8K used (in most cases).
I think the price of most saxophones is reasonable in comparison to what musicians pay for other instruments.

[eddierich]

Keyboards aren't very expensive. You can get top of the line instruments for $3K. Pianos are, of course, a whole other story.

[Turnaround]

Keyboards aren't very expensive. You can get top of the line instruments for $3K. Pianos are, of course, a whole other story.

I beg to differ. Yes, current keyboards are not expensive, but a vintage modular Moog will run you into the tens of thousands quick.

[SaxPlayer1004]

Warp, no I haven't played them, but here was my reasoning. When have you seen music that calls for it? That was mainly what I was referring to, I'm not saying that they are dogs to play or are horrible instruments, in fact I have never heard anything bad really said about them. I just can't see any truly practical point in owning one as a gigging instrument. That being said, boy do I wish I could own one just for the sake of owning one. I'm sure most everyone that owns theirs plays on a regular basis, but for a gigging or in school musician, there isn't much use for them. Sorry if that was unclear.

[Fader]

Hard to say with vintaqge instruments but top of the line electric guitars (excluding collectors pieces) are on the whole, less expensive that comprable saxes. Custom shop Gibsons run $3000 - $5000, Fender's, Gretch's, and the other "big" names even less. Some companies have excellent reproductions available as well. Steel string acoustics are similar. A Martin EC (in my opinion thier best production guitar ever) is only about $3000 new or used. Classical guitars can get pricey but only similar to the current top of the line Selmer horns

[Enviroguy]

What other popular instrument whose TOP examples and most sought after models are as cheap as the sax?

Trumpets....

You can often find the same makes and models of trumpets played by the current and past greats for under $3,000 and sometimes as cheap as $1,000 for top-year Connstilations and King Flares. It is true that there are custom made trumpets that go in the $10 to $20K range. But that's true for sax, flutes and just about everything else. Also, new pro trumpets aren't that bad compared to saxophones. I got a like-new Xeno with Reverse lead-pipe for my daughter for under $1400. Try to buy a like-new Yamaha 82z or 875 for that price.