Dummies Guide to Mouthpieces?

[JoAnnPeeler]

I have some general questions about mouthpieces that I may have developed opinions on but I don't believe I've ever tested these opinions against the SOTW knowledgebase. I suppose many of these questions have been answered in one way or another spread throughout the SOTW fora; however, I thought it would be nice to provide a thread where this knowledge could be consolidated. Hopefully, some of our resident experts could provide definitive answers.

TIP OPENINGS
1) What role does the size of the tip opening have?
2) What can one expect when moving to a smaller tip opening versus a larger tip opening?
3) When do you know you've chosen a tip opening too small or large?

LAY
1) What are the characteristics of a piece with a long lay versus a short lay?
2) How do you know you've chosen a lay that is either too short or long?

CHAMBER
1) What roles does the size of the chamber have?
2) What can one expect when moving to a smaller or larger chamber size?
3) How do you know you've chosen a chamber size that is too small or large?
4) How does the shape of the chamber (square, round, horseshoe) affect the characteristics of the piece?

BAFFLE
1) What is a baffle?
2) What affect does a baffle have on the sound of the mouthpiece?
3) How do the characteristics of a rollover baffle differ from a flat baffle?
4) How do you know if you've chosen a baffle that is too low or high?

RAILS
1) What role does the width of rails have?
2) How do you know you've chosen a piece where the rails are too thin/wide?

MATERIALS
1) What affect (if any) does material have on the mouthpieces characteristics?

GENERAL QUESTIONS
1) What aspects of a saxophone affect the performance of any given mouthpiece (bore, others?)
2) Are there aspects of a mouthpiece that will predicts its affect on intonation?
3) What aspects of a mouthpiece affect projection?
4) What aspects of a mouthpiece affect resistance?
5) What aspects of a mouthpiece affect warmth or brightness?
6) What aspects of a mouthpiece make it "reed friendly"?

[MyMartinTenor]

I agree this is a good idea to try to consolidate knowledge. I'm not enough of a pro to add my own 2 cents, but I've always found Wanne's "Mouthpiece University" site to be a great resource on many of these questions:

http://www.theowanne.com/mouthpieces101/Campus.php

[Thomas]

The easy answer to many of your questions is;
When you like the way it feels and sounds when you play it.

[saxjazz42]

I have some general questions about mouthpieces that I may have developed opinions on but I don't believe I've ever tested these opinions against the SOTW knowledgebase. I suppose many of these questions have been answered in one way or another spread throughout the SOTW fora; however, I thought it would be nice to provide a thread where this knowledge could be consolidated. Hopefully, some of our resident experts could provide definitive answers.

TIP OPENINGS
1) What role does the size of the tip opening have?
2) What can one expect when moving to a smaller tip opening versus a larger tip opening?
3) When do you know you've chosen a tip opening too small or large?

LAY
1) What are the characteristics of a piece with a long lay versus a short lay?
2) How do you know you've chosen a lay that is either too short or long?

CHAMBER
1) What roles does the size of the chamber have?
2) What can one expect when moving to a smaller or larger chamber size?
3) How do you know you've chosen a chamber size that is too small or large?
4) How does the shape of the chamber (square, round, horseshoe) affect the characteristics of the piece?

BAFFLE
1) What is a baffle?
2) What affect does a baffle have on the sound of the mouthpiece?
3) How do the characteristics of a rollover baffle differ from a flat baffle?
4) How do you know if you've chosen a baffle that is too low or high?

RAILS
1) What role does the width of rails have?
2) How do you know you've chosen a piece where the rails are too thin/wide?

MATERIALS
1) What affect (if any) does material have on the mouthpieces characteristics?

GENERAL QUESTIONS
1) What aspects of a saxophone affect the performance of any given mouthpiece (bore, others?)
2) Are there aspects of a mouthpiece that will predicts its affect on intonation?
3) What aspects of a mouthpiece affect projection?
4) What aspects of a mouthpiece affect resistance?
5) What aspects of a mouthpiece affect warmth or brightness?
6) What aspects of a mouthpiece make it "reed friendly"?

Here's a few thoughts, I'll tell you what I've found...You are right though, some of these questions are entire threads somewhere else on the forum. Also, definitive answers in relation to mouthpieces are difficult as much of it is opinion/experimentation. There is a vast difference of opinion in terms of what the most important aspects of the mouthpiece are in relation to performance, so I won't say much about that.

Tip openings: Smaller tips can be easier to control for some, especially when starting out as they can help focus the airstream and don't require as much air. They are limited somewhat in terms of volume but with the right reed/tip combination, one can certainly get volume out of a smaller tip mouthpiece. In general, larger tips will naturally play darker than smaller tips, but some larger tip mouthpieces have more baffle, which adds brightness. Generally, if you feel like you have hit a limit as to how much air you can push through the mouthpiece and a harder reed isn't working out, a larger tip may be in order. If you feel like the mouthpiece is hard to control or takes too much air to get a good sound out of and a softer reed isn't working, try a smaller tip.

Lay: Short curves can articulate faster and tend to accent the upper register. They also require less of the reed to flex, so a shorter facing is a little like a smaller tip in terms of reed strength. Long curves accent the lower register and use more of the reed. They tend to get more of the fundamental of the tone. So, if you think your sound is a bit thin/tinny, a longer facing may help. If it sounds dark and airy and dead in the upper register, a shorter facing may be in order. Also, in general larger tip openings have slightly longer facings and vice versa.

Chamber: Large chambers are usually darker, smaller chambers brighter although the baffle also plays a role here. Some people don't like the feel of a small or large chamber depending on their way of playing, ie those who put alot of air in the horn usually like larger chambers, while those who use less air may like a smaller chamber. There are also intonation considerations here, as the chamber volume can affect the intonation between registers on the horn. This depends on the bore size of the instrument, especially in the neck. In general, large bore saxophones like large chambers and vice versa, although the player can make alot of adjustments (mpc placement on cork, throat/oral cavity adjustments etc) to deal with this. As far as chamber shape goes, I haven't done enough experimentation or research to have any reliable info there.

Baffle: It is the area right behind the tip rail, and ranges from concave to extreme step baffles. I would suggest searching for other posts on baffle shapes to get that info, as there are a ton of minute variations. The baffle has a big effect on the overall sound, as it is the first thing the airstream encounters on it's way into the mouthpiece. High baffles are generally brighter, low baffles darker, but the shape also has an effect here. Rollovers are somewhat like a high, short baffle that adds a bit of buzz to the sound; wedge-type baffles add a good amount of brightness and projection.

Rails: Rail thickness can change the resistance of the mouthpiece slightly. Thicker rails are a bit more resistant, thin rails are less resistant. Some think that thin rails play a bit brighter and thicker a bit darker, but I hear it more as lively vs. dead. Very thick rails just seem to take the life out of a reed, although they do offer a better reed seal and are less squeak-prone. That said, I've never encountered a squeak issue that was solely caused by thin rails.

Material: Do a search on here and see what you find. Opinions vary from no difference at all, to every difference in the world. I do believe that certain grades of hard rubber resonate differently, but the biggest difference may be in the way the mpc sounds to the player because of the way the sound is transmitted through the teeth/skull to our ears.

General Thoughts: I think some of these questions are answered in the info above. I will say that having a flat table on a mouthpiece will greatly enhance reed friendliness and response. Also, having not only a facing that is balanced rail-to-rail, but that is in a good, even arc has alot to do with the response and character of the mouthpiece. Mouthpieces that play evenly through the registers do so because the facing curve is even.

I know I didn't answer everything, but that should give you some ideas. I'm sure plenty of others will chime in with their thoughts. FYI, I'm a professional saxophonist and mouthpiece tech, so everything above comes from what I've learned as a player and craftsman. Peace- Mike

[km]

I can't add anything to the above personally - but

http://www.dawkes.co.uk/mouthpiece_book.asp

may be worth a look

I realise florida is some way from berkshire - but FWIW I have found his advice very helpful when I've been ot dawkes myself

haven't read the book though

km

[JoAnnPeeler]

Here's a few thoughts, I'll tell you what I've found...You are right though, some of these questions are entire threads somewhere else on the forum. Also, definitive answers in relation to mouthpieces are difficult as much of it is opinion/experimentation. There is a vast difference of opinion in terms of what the most important aspects of the mouthpiece are in relation to performance, so I won't say much about that.
(snip)

Thanks Mike! From an amateur's perspective the logic is not always clear whenever you would like to try a different mouthpiece to improve X (whatever X is.) My hope is that someone who wants to improve X could reference this thread to narrow down a list of mouthpiece choices that could improve X by being sufficiently different on attribute Y to cause the right kind of change. Unlike Thomas' earlier suggestion I have neither the time nor the cash to randomly try mouthpieces until I find the right one. For example, I currently play on a Vandoren V16 A6M which gives me everything I want except good control on staccato and attacks in general (I sometimes splat notes especially at higher volumes.) I would like to narrow down my list of mouthpieces that I might want to try based on some logical principals (i.e. smaller opening, smaller chamber, etc.) Of course in my case, I believe I can work out my problems with attack through practice and better technique, but it was just and example.

[saxjazz42]

No problem, you are quite welcome. You are exactly right though, there is no way to compensate for a lack of practicing with a mouthpiece. I think of at is this: the mouthpiece/horn setup have a certain performance ceiling. Once you hit that, it's time for a new mouthpiece or horn etc. Alot of people switch setups because they can't or won't admit it's themselves that needs to change to get a better result...the trick is knowing when it's you and when it's the machinery.

Best of luck- Mike

[freeflier]

Great question, and great answers. Keep 'em coming, and make this a "sticky."

As to:


The easy answer to many of your questions is;
When you like the way it feels and sounds when you play it.

"e-a-s-y" is not how you spell "useless." Sorry to take this out on you, Thomas, and you're not the only guilty one, but I am so sick and tired of the "just try it" answer to every question. Not all of us have the access, location, resources, and time to try each and every combination of equipment that has ever been manufactured. That's why we would like to learn from others' experience, if only to guide us to what we should play-test.

If I think my medium-chambered long-lay narrow-tipped mouthpiece is a little too dark and stuffy, and it costs me $20 round trip shipping for every mouthpiece I want to test, I'd like to tap into the collective experience of SOTW to get an idea which way I should go in trying different mouthpieces. If you think I might benefit from a shorter lay, smaller chamber, or a higher baffle, say so. If you have nothing useful to offer, don't.

[skippy]

MojoBari's FAQ page on his website is another excellent resource. But there's no substitute for personal experience.

http://www.mojomouthpiecework.com/FAQ/tabid/55/Default.aspx

[MojoBari]

Mike did a great job. I only take issue with his comment on short lays being like small tip openings. For the same tip opening size, a short facing length requires the reed to curve more within the short distance. This makes it feel like it is more resistant so it is more like a larger tip opening.

I do not recommend the Dawkes/Weinberg book. The book by Bob Scharff is better for the basics. But all the info he presents is on SOTW if you surf around.