Holton Reso-Tone saxophones/model 204

[soybean]

This is a thread about Holton Reso-Tone saxophones*. It is a rarely seen model from the 1930s which was a professional horn. Some are silver plate and some gold lacquered with nickel keys. Thank you to LaPorte who provided the bulk of this information.

Here is a printed advert for the introduction of the Reso-Tone model.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/HoltonResoTone9a5e_1.jpg

Quote; "A Completely New Saxophone"

"This is the new Holton Reso-Tone alto saxophone, built upon new proportions and with new tonal quality, new mouthpipe, new octave key, new key guards and new thumb rest. A completely new instrument that will set a new standard in saxophone construction and tone."


*not to be confused with LeBlanc Reso-tone student clarinets.

More photos and information to follow…
;)

[soybean]

I don't know if Holton built a tenor version. If so, it might be model 214(?).

From LaPorte: "The first photo shows the tone ring with the character 'Reso-Tone' on an alto saxophone (not very sharp), the second on a trumpet of the same period. The following will show that alto from different perspectives including the right side which can be compared with the ad. I don't bid. My wife says, that my collection is (more than) complete. She's right.

I don't know how it sounds. I think this should be a really good saxophone based on the Revelation II (some sort of deluxe). Probably a wider bore than Revelation I. I guess that Couturier's ideas moved into the Holton series of the thirties."

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/ResoTone_A_123102.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/ResoTone_Tr_121511.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/0635_3.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/0864_3.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/0e1b_3.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/116d_3.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/13d7_3.jpg

[soybean]

LaPorte:

"according to the (six digit-) serial numbers:

trumpet #121511
alto #122383 (silverplated)

both were made 1937 and the

alto #123102 (gold-lacqueur)

was made in 1938.

Since 1930 all Holton saxophones were made in Elkhorn. Production in LaPorte ended 1929. The equipment of the factory was transferred to Elkhorn and the production of COLLEGIATE I/BEAUFORT AMERICAN were continued for a year or two. Those were the last saxophones originally designed by E.A. Couturier. But I'm pretty sure that his ideas of proportions lived on in the following models (REVELATION II; COLLEGIATE II and ResoTone)*. This question is for me the most interesting topic to investigate before I stop doing researches on saxophones. I'm not convinced that Holton used any Conn patents as stated by 'Ol' Bear' Cybersax (I highly rate his contributions and I have many good insights from his web site, he is a real expert.)

*Some features as brace rings or low C/Es key design can be found on REVELATION II, Collegiate II incuding the tenor, stencilled by Gretsch.

[soybean]

Here is the silver Reso-Tone that was on eBay this week.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/6646_1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/c75e_1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/5b46_1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/53f7_1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/2601_1.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/5659_1.jpg

If anyone else has photos of a Reso-Tone model 204 (especially the right side), please add them to this thread. ;)

[LaPorte]

If anyone else has photos of a Reso-Tone model 204 (especially the right side), please add them to this thread. ;)

Sorry, I :? forgot to send you the most important photo for identification! On this photo the character 'ResoTone' can clearly be seen, too. I've sent you a message with a photo from the right side and one of the ligature.

That's all I have.

Felix

[soybean]

The mysterious8-) right-side of the Reso-Tone:

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/Reso-Tonerside.jpg

≈

Photo shows the original Reso ligature (on a non-original ebolin mpc).

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/Holton%20Resotone/Reso-Toneorigligature.jpg

[mad-dog]

Hi, guys
I am now the owner of the lacquer 204 in Soybean's last set of pix - it's not playable at the moment, and it may be a while before I'm able to get it so, but by next week my life should be sane enough to get you any additional pictures/measurements/etc you may need, as well as posting the pix and serial # info on my other Holtons.

Dave

[sonofjabba]

Olds Super Line Used that Bell Tone Ring also.

[mad-dog]

Olds Super Line Used that Bell Tone Ring also.

As did the Getzen Super Deluxe trumpets and trombones - beautiful horns, in an overdone '59 Cadillac kind of way, but very thin copper bells, and I've never seen one that hadn't suffered major indignities. I'm a trumpet player who's just recently crossed over to the saxophonic dark side (as my brass-playing friends would say), and one of my favorite horns is a '53 Olds Super.

Dave

[soybean]

Guys, are you saying Getzen and Olds used the exact same ring, or just something similar?

≈
Buescher had a similar ring around the bell of it's Super 400 and TH&C models.

[sonofjabba]

As did the Getzen Super Deluxe trumpets and trombones - beautiful horns, in an overdone '59 Cadillac kind of way, but very thin copper bells, and I've never seen one that hadn't suffered major indignities. I'm a trumpet player who's just recently crossed over to the saxophonic dark side (as my brass-playing friends would say), and one of my favorite horns is a '53 Olds Super.

Dave


<---- Tubist/Olds Brasswind Collector

I tried an Ambassador Alto and really didn't like it at all. Not that they are Bad. Pretty Tone, I didn't like the key config and it was open yet stuffy at the same time.. Might have been the horn.

[soybean]

What are we talking about? If you are quoting the Tubist/Brasswind collector, he may have been talking about an alto horn (not a saxophone). The Ambassador is not a Holton sax as far as i know.

[sonofjabba]

Olds Made a Line called a "The Super" They shared that tone ring on the bells, Trumpets, T-Bones, Saxes... I still haven't figured out what it's supposed to do. I can't hear any noticeable changes with or without it.

[bruce bailey]

Also, the Ambassador saxes from after the war were a mixture of Buescher and Martin bodies.

[sonofjabba]

Also, the Ambassador saxes from after the war were a mixture of Buescher and Martin bodies.

I've been trying to figure it out on my own.. You spoiled the surprise.... LOL Actually I adjusted and Regulated a friend's Martin indiana. It looked so similar to the Ambassador... I'm like "Hmm, Olds might have had martin make their horns."

Olds did not make any woodwinds in house.. Brass & Bugles only. My Tech told me to stay away from them. He gave me a good reason I just can't remember exactly what it was.

[soybean]

Let's try to keep this about Holton Reso-Tone. Thanks

[sonofjabba]

Sorry The Trim work is neat Looks like a Deck of Cards. ;)

[soybean]

:)No problem.;)

[geauxsax]

I know that mad-dog (Dave) bought the lacquer Resotone alto. I can't remember thought--did a SOTWer buy the silver one that sold on ebay? We need some updates if so!

[jazzbug1]

I GOOFED-- Sorry, I mis-read my new Holton tenor to be a model 244. A very close examination under a magnifying glass shows the tiny number to read 214. It has every feature of the 204 alto, but without the fancy bell rim. Perhaps by 1939, Holton felt it too expensive, or they never put in on the tenors. The engraving and decorative key guards are the same, so here is a rare "Res-O-Tone tenor. My guess is the "Res-O-Tone" name comes from the aluminum resonators on the pads. Conn and Buescher were using resonator pads from the 1920s onward. I have never seen a Holton with resonators in the 20s or early 30s. This feature was probably introduced with the Reso models in the mid-30s. I can tell these are the original pads, as there are no tell-tale scrape marks where a set of pads was removed. These are round, slightly domed aluminum discs held onto the pad by large brass rivets. I can't believe how scarce these Reso models are.

[soybean]

My guess is the "Res-O-Tone" name comes from the aluminum resonators on the pads.I like this theory. Seems very plausible.

[jazzbug1]

Einstein liked my theories, also.

[jazzbug1]

REVIEW OF THE RES-O-TONE TENOR: Model 214.
After nearly two month's work, including a bent upper body, spot re-lacquer, polishing and re-padding the solid nickel keys with the original resonators, last night the horn made its debut. I used a Rico Royal B3 and a Conn Comet, designed in ca. 1949 by Santy Runyon. My reeds were old Rico "brown box" #3s. The horn was not disappointing. I played a combination of swing and be-bop. The horn's ergonomics are fine, very much like my Conn 10M, which includes high palm keys. The beautifully designed octave key system worked as quickly as I could force it to, as it functioned smoothly in fast flows or octave jumps. The 214 tenor has been compared to the legendary Selmer Balanced Action, and I must say, I agree. The 214 is from 1939 and it's competion was the Conn 10m, the newer Martins and Bueschers, and the now-famous Selmer. The Holton plays with the best, having a VERY superior top end over the Conn, yet with a bottom end that is very close to the unrivalled Conn's lushness. The horn is capable of full octave glissandos, which is a challenge for a tenor. It plays in tune (a bit better with the Rico M.P., which is closer to the M.P.s of the day) and with a beautiful sound which made many jazz fans ask about the horn, as it's unique key guards gave it a very impressive appearance. The Rico MP sounded great, with a big, fat sound. It was designed by Arnold Brilhart. The Conn M.P looks like the next generation of post-war M.P.s, with the typical skinny shape. The tone is aggressive and focused, like a plastic Dukoff or Larsen. This will be my main tenor for post 1920s jazz, and the Rudy will still be used for earlier styles. It's a shame Holton never marketed their horns the way other makers did, as the lack of popularity led to the belief that they are inferior horns and belong in school bands. I hope someone else is lucky enough to spot one of these rare tenors. Look for the very ornate keyguards.

[JayeSF]

Wow...quite a rave. Sounds like a cool horn, and it sounds like you really put a lotta love into working it back into shape...

Also, taking this along with feedback about their other saxes, it appears that throughout the company's history, they regularly were producing some real winners...

[jazzbug1]

Yes, along with Kahn's Meat Packing, which produced some real weiners.

[JayeSF]

....shhhhhh...the rare connection between the sausage industry and the sax industry is supposed to be a highly-protected trade secret....

[Walter Webb]

There is another machine you fools should know about, and learn how to use when you are playing cheezy stock charts with a lot of synchronized vibrato:
THE SLUSH PUMPER!!! Guy Lombardo mastered the usage of this machine, which, when attached to to the bell of every saxophone, causes the entire audience to simultaneously hallucinate a huge pile of writhing pink slimy worms. That's what Igor Stravinsky had to say about it in his autobiography.
That unmistakeable sound.....of pumping slush out the bells.

[JayeSF]

Sounds like you can make sausages with it, too.

Actually, back on TOPIC....;)....stupid question:

Are all 214's Reso-Tones ?

(there, that was it....)

[soybean]

REVIEW OF THE RES-O-TONE TENOR… The horn's ergonomics are fine, very much like my Conn 10M, which includes high palm keys. The beautifully designed octave key system worked as quickly as I could force it to.… The 214 tenor has been compared to the legendary Selmer Balanced Action, and I must say, I agree.This has to be the first review of the res-o-tone tenor anywhere on the internet. Thank you Jazzbug. If possible, please give us a little more info about the octave key system and why it is superior. Are the palm keys "high" like a Mk VI, or higher like modern saxes?

[jazzbug1]

The palm keys are high as on a 1940s-50s American tenor. I think the first horn with easily accessible palm keys was the Conn 10m (ca. 1934). I don't have a problem with the earlier lower style palm key touches, as I have played 20s horns all my life, with the exception of my 10M and a Buescher Top Hat and Cane 400, (which I regret selling many years ago for the going price of $100). The octave key system is very study and smoother compared to other horns of the day. The key itself is of a double rod like the Selmers, which is very hard to bend. The key support is a very robust solid brass casting shaped like a triangle vs. the tradititional double post style. It is cleverly sprung in a unique design and moves a rocking bar on the horn body, which is mounted on ball and socket joints and activates the lower octave when the G key is depressed. This sounds complicated, but in design it is a simple mechanism which is the best I've seen. I'm surprised Holton didn't use the underslung style octave, but this is actually a stronger set-up. Furthermore, the neck has the usual brace on the bottom, which is soldered into the contour of the neck, as in modern horns. Holton got rid of the old-fashioned rod brace, which Conn curiously kept for decades. There is even a front brace on the neck, which is decoratively shaped like a shield, making for a very strong neck. The most interesting little gadget is a beautifully machined roller mounted into the the F key bar which holds down the G# key when the bell keys are used. This eliminates sideways friction on the bar of the alt. Bb fingering when both top fingers are used. I don't feel this is neccessary, but it is so interesting. The keys are solid nickel alloy, which is much stronger than brass and are equally difficult to adjust, but once they are set up, I'm sure they will stay. The resonators are quite large when compared to the smaller resonators on Conn pads and the modern theory, which makes sense, is to maximise the area covered by the resonator to maximise the sound reflection. This horn can stand up to any top tenor, and with it's large bore, could play lead tenor in any big band. I even tried my Berg Larsen on it and played some R+B licks. It can be a screamer, too. When one gets to the top of anything, it becomes opinion, as in who's better, Picasso or Manet? What you choose is what fills your needs. This Holton (for $330!!) rivals any vintage tenor ever built. I wish the "Holton Trashers" could honk on it.
I plan a You-Tube Holton saxophone demo to show some unbelievers that Holtons are fine horns, even in the hands of a "Guy Lombardo Lover" (just kidding)

[JayeSF]

Actually, back on TOPIC....;)....stupid question:

Are all 214's Reso-Tones ?

(there, that was it....)
:hello2:

[geauxsax]

I think we need to locate some vintage ads or perhaps an old Holton catalog to find a definitive answer.

[jazzbug1]

Update on the Holton Res-O-Tone model 214 tenor. Yesterday, a notable player and educator, Carol Mclaughlin took it for a "test drive". He is a pro player, arranger, and has a degree from Berklee. He was very impressed. Carol (a guy) plays a Mark VI and a Super 80. He used a Sugal mouthpiece. It's always fun to hear your horn played by a different player, and this very modern mouthpiece sounded surprisingly silky on the ballad, but aggressive when pushed. The Holton sounded great and Carol agreed that it sounds very much like a Selmer Balanced Action and he is a BIG Selmer fan. He was very impressed by the horn's intonation and timbre (brings to mind the comments of "tinny sound" and "lack of intonation" when one performs a Google search of Holton)
Carol wants me to look for another one for him. I said this is the first tenor I have seen or heard of, so good luck. My son-in-law wants one too! Don Menza will be in town in August and I'll have him try it. Maybe I won't tell him what brand it is ahead of time.

[jazzbug1]

Just had an older experienced pro player try my model 214 Res-O-tone tenor. He offered to trade his King Super 20 for it! He's not crazy. Everybody who's tried it loves it. Too bad they only made a few.

[geauxsax]

I wonder how similar it is to the 241.

[jazzbug1]

I plan to buy a 241 for my son-in-law for Xmas. I will write up a comparison review at that time. I'm thinking a late 30s-40s 241 might be different from a 1950s-60s. I will try to find a late 30s-40s model, as I suspect a more vintage bore and tone.

[geauxsax]

Jazzbug,
With the "research" I've been doing on "Modern" Vintage Holtons, I've noted 241 models from 182XXX (1948) to 237XXX (1952). I'm not sure how much earlier or later Holton made 241s. Mine is a 220XXX (1950/51). The only differfence I can tell (haven't measured any bores though) is the octave key on the neck. The 182XXX model has a single-arm octave key with a loop on the bottom to catch the actuator rod. All the other 241s have the fancy double-arm octave key like your Resotone.

Additionally, while I haven't seen any pictures, the "240" tenor, in two instances online, is recorded as having serial numbers of 135XXX (1940) and 145XXX (1941). As far as I can guess, this model faded during the war and was replaced with the 241.

Anyone got a pic of a 240 by the way?:D

[jazzbug1]

I'm curious if there is any tonal difference between the 240 and 241. Sometimes, the only diffence in horns was a change in engraving, octave key design, or perhaps tha G# trill key (on pre-war horns) was removed and Holton could introduce the "all new" model 241. That is the only consistant change in saxophone after the war: the last vestige of the 1920s trill keys disappeared. Automobile companies do this all the time, introducing last year's model, with a small trim change, as "all new" and change the model name.

[geauxsax]

I'm curious if there is any tonal difference between the 240 and 241. Sometimes, the only diffence in horns was a change in engraving, octave key design, or perhaps tha G# trill key (on pre-war horns) was removed and Holton could introduce the "all new" model 241. That is the only consistant change in saxophone after the war: the last vestige of the 1920s trill keys disappeared. Automobile companies do this all the time, introducing last year's model, with a small trim change, as "all new" and change the model name.

Agreed, but Holton could do some wacky things. My Revelation II (using Felix's nomenclature) was made concurrently with late Rudy models, but has a bigger neck tenon diameter. Holton seems like they missed more chances than not to save a buck.

BTW--I still can't figure out how 465/475 "Ideal" models fit in! Does anyone know how to get copies, or even microfische of old Holton catalogs? I think that could resolve several questions.

[jazzbug1]

Another update on the #214 Res-O-Tone tenor. I kept wondering why it felt so nice to hold. Another player pointed out that the pearl key touches are convex (they extend out) vs. the usual convex (inward) key touches. It gives the horn a very nice feel. One wouldn't think this makes a diffence, but to me it is very comfortable on the fingers. The 214 looks and sounds like an effort to copy the Selmer Balanced action (Holton engineers frequently copied the French). I wonder if the pre-war balanced actions had convex pearl keys. More worthless trivia from J.B.