A bunch of Guardalas. Are they real???

[Turnaround]

Quinn just listed a bunch of Guardalas, many FatBoys and rarities. For some reason, they don't look very convincing to me. The rails are WAY to thick and the finishing work look rather sketchy as well. No offense to Quinn, he knows his horns, but I question the authenticity of these Guardalas.

http://search.stores.ebay.com/quinntheeskimo-Vintage-Horns_guardala_W0QQfciZQ2d1QQfclZ3QQfsnZquinnthees kimoQ20VintageQ20HornsQQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsaselZ1427 QQsofpZ0

I wouldn't want anyone to pay those prices and get a fake.

[EastCoastGhost]

why don't you ask him instead of making baseless claims out here and undermining his reputation

[Grumps]

There was a dispute, mostly played out on alt.music.saxophone, in regard to numerous unfinished Guardalas discovered in storage and purchased by some sort of auction house. Some of them still had portions of the brass bar they were cut from. At least one member bought one and had it finished by Phil Barone, I believe (and that controversy played out here). Should you repost this question on alt.music.saxophone you're likely to get a more informed opinion... crazed perhaps... but informed.

[Turnaround]

why don't you ask him instead of making baseless claims out here and undermining his reputation

I did send him a question as well. And if they are fake, it will do a lot more damage to his creds than this post. I'm actually trying to help here.

And as far as baseless, I've have seen a few original versions of these rare pieces, and they DO NOT look like that. The rails are much thinner. So I am basing my opinion on experience.

And if they are not finished, they should be advertised as such.

[whaler]

His reputation for having great horns is only superceded by the fact that they are also very expensive, but I've never seen anybody saying he is not completely straightforward in his descriptions or authenticity of what he sells. The guy knows his stuff!
Probably the only reason he has a %99.60 feedback rating instead of %100 is that someone tried to sell him something that wasn't authentic and he called them on it.

[Saxaholic]

They're fakes...I've seen these around before, they are not original Guardalas. Someone is making fake mouthpieces. I'm going to post a new thread about it later today.

Saxaholic

[quinntheeskimo]

They're fakes...I've seen these around before, they are not original Guardalas. Someone is making fake mouthpieces. I'm going to post a new thread about it later today.

Saxaholic

I completely trust the source that I purchased these from, and I am certain they are authentic. If you disagree, send it back for a refund. I do note in the listings that they are not finished. I have had additional experts examine them up close as well as play them and they concluded their authenticity as well. An unfinishedf mouthpiece will of course look different from a finished one.

[Horned Toad]

Here is how original (and finished by DG) looks for comparison:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/molings/SNgYnc8ucgI/AAAAAAAAAJg/X9pRLcgd9yg/s800/DSC03460.JPG

[Dr G]

Yech! Could you PLEASE clean that thing?

I was eating my lunch... :shock:

[Grumps]

Yech! Could you PLEASE clean that thing?
But Brecker might have played it...

[Dr G]

Let me see the bite plate and I'll tell ya...

[Henry D]

"Someone called me about this.It looks like they were made from the
blanks stolen from my garage. NOT FINISHED BY DAVE. No mouthpiece
would have ever escaped from our factory with writing on the table, nor
would I ever write on the table.

Please post my response on SOTW to protect the buyers.

Thank you

Abbedd "

Posted per Mr. Powell's request. I have no personal knowledge of any aspect of this matter nor am I sufficiently informed to offer any personal opinion.

[Henry D]

His reputation for having great horns is only superceded by the fact that they are also very expensive, but I've never seen anybody saying he is not completely straightforward in his descriptions or authenticity of what he sells. The guy knows his stuff!
Probably the only reason he has a %99.60 feedback rating instead of %100 is that someone tried to sell him something that wasn't authentic and he called them on it.

I would personally think that his rating is that high because he holds himself absolutely accountable after the sale. He does high volume and incidents will happen. I've purchased several items from Quinn. Most were just as indicated. Three: an SML D which was supposed to be original lacquer and which upon receipt was a very good, but indisputable, relaq; a Schilke B6L which turned out to have an S series main tuning slide; and a King Liberty which broke loose inside its case in shipment incurring damage. He offered without question or fuss to accept the two of the three I contacted him on back. As it happens- the relaq made no difference to me personally and I liked the horn and so kept it, and I fixed the King myself and kept it. I asked for no rebates as I don't believe that's appropriate in the EBay format. I didn't realize the Schilke business until I had it for a month- over what I'd see as the time limit to grouse about a purchase. Clearly- he stands behind his sales and I'd happily deal with him again.

I have no doubt but that the mouthpieces were sold to him as original and that he believes them to be so. I haven't enough personal knowledge on the subject to know myself; machined brass is pretty counterfitable and at these price levels there's plenty of incentive for fraud to have taken place en route to the Eskimo.

[quinntheeskimo]

"Someone called me about this.It looks like they were made from the
blanks stolen from my garage. NOT FINISHED BY DAVE. No mouthpiece
would have ever escaped from our factory with writing on the table, nor
would I ever write on the table.

Please post my response on SOTW to protect the buyers.

Thank you

Abbedd "

Posted per Mr. Powell's request. I have no personal knowledge of any aspect of this matter nor am I sufficiently informed to offer any personal opinion.

Ok, these pieces were legally purchased through Dudley's Auctions in Florida. I am not representing them as finished pieces and have added a note to the listings to clarify that. If Jeff Powell has any evidence that these were stolen from him I ask him to produce it and I will immediately withdraw the listings. Absent such evidence, I will consider any assertion that I am selling stolen property to be libel and act accordingly.

[quinntheeskimo]

"Someone called me about this.It looks like they were made from the
blanks stolen from my garage. NOT FINISHED BY DAVE. No mouthpiece
would have ever escaped from our factory with writing on the table, nor
would I ever write on the table.

Please post my response on SOTW to protect the buyers.

Thank you

Abbedd "

Posted per Mr. Powell's request. I have no personal knowledge of any aspect of this matter nor am I sufficiently informed to offer any personal opinion.

Though I suppose this settles the authenticity debate...:)

[Turnaround]

...I have no doubt but that the mouthpieces were sold to him as original and that he believes them to be so. I haven't enough personal knowledge on the subject to know myself; machined brass is pretty counterfitable and at these price levels there's plenty of incentive for fraud to have taken place en route to the Eskimo.

That was exactly how I felt about the pieces. I was not trying to imply that Quinn was intentionally selling "fake" (as I put it initially) pieces, but that I had questions about the facing finish (not the plating which is not there and stated in the auctions).

Thank you Henry H, you were more eloquent in your way of saying what I initially wanted to express.

I have dealt with Quinn as well and always had a great experience.

[Louis gerrits]

Looks absolutely fake to me.

Louis

[Saxaholic]

Sorry, Quinn, but those mouthpieces were not finished by Dave. Whoever your "source" is, let them know they're wrong. As Jeff Powell put it, NOT finished by Dave. I would think the mans partner for however many years would know.

It's probably best to seek a refund, return them, or not list them. It will only damage your reputation. Best of luck.

Saxaholic

[Tobias]

hehe, I think it's kind of ironic that maybe someone did a fraud with the mouthpieces of dave guardala

[Raphyel]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT :dontknow:

[Graftonsax]

For that price if I was looking for a handmade Guardala, I'd get a finished piece, just me though, those pieces look nice however.

[jgreiner]

I'm certainly no Guardala expert, but I can confidently say that I've NEVER seen a Guardala with rails that THICK.

John

[Chicken 'Lil]

I'm certainly no Guardala expert, but I can confidently say that I've NEVER seen a Guardala with rails that THICK.

John

Really, you haven't heard of the Guardala Thick Boy? ;)

[Phil Barone]

There was a dispute, mostly played out on alt.music.saxophone, in regard to numerous unfinished Guardalas discovered in storage and purchased by some sort of auction house. Some of them still had portions of the brass bar they were cut from. At least one member bought one and had it finished by Phil Barone, I believe (and that controversy played out here). Should you repost this question on alt.music.saxophone you're likely to get a more informed opinion... crazed perhaps... but informed.

To the best of my ability I can say that they're real but unfinished. I don't think they're worth that kind of money though. I finished a couple of the alto pieces that were much less finished than the ones on these auctions but if you really wanted a Guardala these would be much easier to finish than the alto pieces I worked on to finish. Phil

[Phil Barone]

Ok, these pieces were legally purchased through Dudley's Auctions in Florida. I am not representing them as finished pieces and have added a note to the listings to clarify that. If Jeff Powell has any evidence that these were stolen from him I ask him to produce it and I will immediately withdraw the listings. Absent such evidence, I will consider any assertion that I am selling stolen property to be libel and act accordingly.

I'll back this guy up. These guys bought a lot of Guardala's stuff when it was auctioned off and he's legit. He's been selling it for over a year now and I bought a very unfinished alto mouthpiece and to say that brass is easily counterfeited is just not true.

The time and effort to make a mouthpiece from bar stock would be a full time gig and is more difficult than you can imagine. Then, to put out a unfinished piece and handicap the whole process just wouldn't make any sense especially in light of the fact that you wouldn't be able to sell that many since it would become obvious in a short time. AND, to make all those models would require a tremendsous amount of programing time. None of it makes sense. Phil

[musicispassion]

Since I am the one who has and has been selling all of the guardala items over the past couple of years, I can tell you that I have no records selling to Quinn, but I'm sure he purchased from someone who did a little more work on them after purchasing from me.

The reason I KNOW this, is while I don't claim to be an expert on mouthpieces, I have every picture I ever took and records of every person who ever purchased.

I, personally, have NEVER sold an MB that had "MB" sharpied on the table. All have been marked below the body or not marked at all.

On top of that, I only had 1 MB that went to a friend in Hawaii who had it finished, plated, etc. by quite a few different professionals/musicians/friends in order to play it FOR HIMSELF, as he still does today. The others were ALL MBII and were marked so. If I remember correctly, most went to Germany and Italy, and, I think, 2 were plated, signed, numbered, and in the marked cardboard tube.

I'm not sure why he claims to have purchased from Dudleys, but he didn't. If he purchased from someone that previously purchased from Dudleys, it has gone through some changes since we sold it.

As far as Mr. Powell, (who still hides in Spring Hill, FL)... He is a very mean-spirited, sad little man. I felt sorry for him until I tried to give him his patent plaque back (that was in 1 of the many boxes of bills, IRS notices, UNPAID invoices, disability forms, and stacks and stacks of letters from people inquiring about their orders, etc. for DG.) I thought I was doing something nice, but that's not possible w/ Mr. Powell.

I just want to make it clear that Dudleys is an auction house, and as unfortunate as it is, an auction house is a "liquidator" and that's what we are doing with the items from this house that was foreclosed on. The good news is, I have met many great musicians, Internationally, through this journey...some of which I still keep in contact with.

Most really wanted the blanks to try and finish or get finished with their own contacts. Some have been successful, some have ended up with some very expensive paperweights! I have also met people that knew Dave, and have explained to me that he used to be a great guy, and genius, but got caught up in the drug scene and everything went downhill from there.

All we can hope for now is for him to get extradited, get a book and movie deal, makes millions, and the judge orders him to pay back all of his victims.

I hope these FACTS help some people put some pieces together.

~music

[quinntheeskimo]

I'm not sure why he claims to have purchased from Dudleys, but he didn't. If he purchased from someone that previously purchased from Dudleys, it has gone through some changes since we sold it.

~music

FYI, I did not claim to have purchased these from Dudley's, but that they were originally sold legitimately through Dudley's. The have been through at least 1, or possibly two intermediaries since then. I value the privacy of my clients and vendors and purposely did not disclose my primary source to protect his/her privacy.

The sharpie markings were added by an expert who evaluated each one as to what type it was. Sharpie comes off with alcohol or acetone. No biggie.

[Grumps]

The sharpie markings were added by an expert who evaluated each one as to what type it was. Sharpie comes off with alcohol or acetone. No biggie.
It's a biggie if it was not clearly pointed out in the auction ad copy that it was added later by someone else not connected with the business. Otherwise folks would assume they were found this way. What else did your expert(s) do? According to Musicispassion, some pieces were altered between the time they left his possession and the time they appeared for sale on Ebay. Were they in fact altered by your expert(s) prior to sale?

[mascio]

hehe, I think it's kind of ironic that maybe someone did a fraud with the mouthpieces of dave guardala

Birds of a feather flock together:|