Holton Bass Saxophone on eBay

[soybean]

Somebody painted it black and not very well. There must have been some pretty terrible red rot to paint over such a horn.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110297696371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

Could it be a Courturier?

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http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x88/jimiclapton/HoltonBasssax.jpg

[geauxsax]

Whoa!!! What a beast--stripped down and replated, that Holton would be awesome.

Another for the serial number registry!

[soybean]

The seller describes "black lacquer" but it looks more like enamel.

[bbbouklas]

he was definitely inspired by the Conn bass that was on saxpics (goldplated bell, neck, keys and black body)

[bruce bailey]

No soldered tone holes. I vote Buescher.

[Jonathan C.]

dang thats a beast. Looks great.

[hgrail]

With a pinky cluster like that - definately a Buescher.

What's up with that neck though? Don't know what that came off of.

Looks like it's been around the block & re-done a few times as well (unfortunately..)

[DavyRay]

I think it's a Conn. Check the photo of the bow.

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

What's up with the LH keys? No bis and no front F, I understand. But the keys are in a weird position. Uncomfortable, yes?

[BeyondSax]

The neck is unlike my later Buescher Aristocrat, but the pinky cluster says Buescher.

[saxtek]

Lock screws for the pivot screws + "Mercedes Benz" low C keyguard = Conn for sure. Aftermarket neck.

[cymru97]

Lock screws for the pivot screws + "Mercedes Benz" low C keyguard = Conn for sure. Aftermarket neck.

Yep. My Holton Bass is a Conn, same keywork. That neck is strange, I wonder how it plays.

[LaPorte]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110297696371&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=001

Could it be a Courturier?

Definately a ... great amount of saxophone!

Made by Holton?
The engraving shows the typical ornaments of the Revelation model of the twenties, but it's lacking the 'made by'. Frank Holton was an honest man: Not made by the Frank Holton Company!

Made by Martin or Couturier/Lyon&Healy?
Like bruce bailey said: No soldered on, bevelled toneholes. So it's no Martin or LaPorte made saxophone.

King?
No indications of King origin.

Buescher or Conn?
Both companies produced bass saxophones. Typical for Conn is the design of the bow protector. But I've seen similiar ones on Buescher's, too. The round pinky G# key is an indication of some TrueTone series, but they can be found on early Conn's, too.

Can we confirm or exclude that it was either made by Buescher or Conn?

1. Buescher serial numbers were always written in an arc (anybody seen different?). The SN given here is written in a straight line!

2. On USA made Horns the 'Mercedes Benz' low C gard was exclusively used by Conn and a similiar looking by Couturier/Lyon&Healy (which we have already excluded!). Outside the USA found on 'Couesnon' and 'Kohlert'.

3. The Combination of Conn-typical brace rings, straight serial number, bow protector and low C gard indicates to Conn.

When looking up the serial number #13734 in the Conn SN records, I'm not completely convinced: 1908! That's absurd!

No Buescher, no Conn? What else?

Copying 'JPEG 13724 Holton Bass 23' into my records and enlarging it to the max, I took a closer look at the 'enamelled' serial number: left from the first digit (distance: one digit) I could make out a small dent or ping and within ... yes, I'm sure there is another '1'!
I consulted my Conn List again: #113734 - 1923. Yeah!

But...stop! When did Frank Holton introduce ornamented/ floral engraving on his Revelation series, as seen on the bass saxophone? I examined my photos of early Revelation's. A C-melody, SN# 13089 (ca.1922) should be early enough. Does it show the characteristic engraving? No doubt, it does!

I'm going to sleep well next night! :)

Felix

[bruce bailey]

There is always the old Elkhart tradition where a factory buys various parts from different makers and assembles them.

[Helen]

So what's the general consensus? (Or is there one?). Who made the horn? Is it a Conn?

It certainly doesn't scream Buescher. I don't know enough about Conn basses to recognize the subtleties, but that would be my logical guess.

I'm assuming that spit valve was added afterwards. I know Paul Woltz added exactly the same type to Gandalfe's 1921 Buescher True Tone bass.

The neck is a mystery though. I'm curious how changing the neck design that much could would change the horn's intonation.

[jazzbug1]

I vote for Conn. The neck length on a column of air the size of a bass sax can't be very critical, so if it fits, it works. I have a Conn bass from the early 1920s and it is a great player. This horn has characteristics of a Conn and the round G# touch was used by Conn in the teens and earlier. The bass sax lagged behind any production changes, such as rolled edge tone holes, so the round pinky key could be still used from their older parts stock. The Holton scroll engraving appears around 1920. Who knows what danger lurks behind the paint, although the keys would show the most serious wear and they look OK. Bass saxes tend to go for at least $4500.00, so maybe this will be someone's bargain. I paid only $400 for mine 20 years ago, so Hah-Hah.

[bruce bailey]

And the winner is......Quinn!

[hgrail]

It looks like the winning bidder is "fluteland".

Is that one of Quinns?

[DavyRay]

Yep, that's him.

I guess I'll never get a bass sax. They are just too expensive for my cheap self.

[quinntheeskimo]

I vote for Conn. The neck length on a column of air the size of a bass sax can't be very critical, so if it fits, it works. I have a Conn bass from the early 1920s and it is a great player. This horn has characteristics of a Conn and the round G# touch was used by Conn in the teens and earlier. The bass sax lagged behind any production changes, such as rolled edge tone holes, so the round pinky key could be still used from their older parts stock. The Holton scroll engraving appears around 1920. Who knows what danger lurks behind the paint, although the keys would show the most serious wear and they look OK. Bass saxes tend to go for at least $4500.00, so maybe this will be someone's bargain. I paid only $400 for mine 20 years ago, so Hah-Hah.

Regarding the maker debate-Holton made at least 1 bass sax in house-I acquired the prototype instrument several years ago. Never had pads in it, and engraved only "Model Approved, January 1921" but since it was acquired from the collection of the Leblanc company it was pretty easy to deduce Holton and comparison with a C melody from that period confirmed the stylistic elements. I will be interested to see this horn and see if it really is one of the house-made Holton basses or if it is something else. FWIW, the prototype shows definite influence from the Conn design.

[bruce bailey]

The last Bass I owned was a Carl Fischer in silver plate which was actually a Buescher. Decent horn too. I paid $35 for it and sold it for $250 AND felt like I did good!!!

[soybean]

Regarding the maker debate-Holton made at least 1 bass sax in houseIf you get a chance, please add your Holton bass serial numbers to our Holton Serial Number registry.

[Sasquatch]

The last Bass I owned was a Carl Fischer in silver plate which was actually a Buescher. Decent horn too. I paid $35 for it and sold it for $250 AND felt like I did good!!!

I would really like to say "I smell BS" regarding a $35 bass, but I guess crazy things happen on a regular basis.

If anybody out there has a bass in need of a good home let me know.

[bruce bailey]

I was in Ted's Musician's Shop on Center st. in Baltimore in 1968. It was in a stairwell behind a door and I asked him how much......$500....I'll give you $25....make it $35 and I walked away with it.

[soybean]

…make it $35 and I walked away with it.If you walked more than a few blocks, he should have paid you $35. Those things are heavy!

[Gus Pratt]

I believe the Holton bass to be a Conn as opposed to Buescher. The high Eb tone hole on Conns are centered on the bow, where on Bueschers they are off center to the left side. Additionally Buescher generally have the Low Eb vent that this sax does not. It also appears that to the left of the serial number there is something else hiding there that is covered by the lacquer. I suspect it is a "P". "P" was a common designation of Conn's to designate a stencil horn. Additionally the Mercedes low C key guard which was common to Conn and not Buescher. Disregard the neck as it was likely custom made.

[LaPorte]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Holton-Conn-Pan-American-Bass-Saxophone-EXCELLENT_W0QQitemZ260318812295QQihZ016QQcategoryZ 16233QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Sasquatch]

No wonder Quinn gets so many cool instruments. Looks like he stands to make at least $1,200 on this one.