Really BRIGHT sound/mpc on bari?

[Subtone Sam]

I'm probably nuts (I'm sure all of you agree... :wink: ) but I'm looking for really bright :idea: sound on bari and I haven't been able to find a mpc that would give me this sound I hear in my head.I'm after almost tenor-like high-baffle sound on bari,a real solo sound,not a bigband/section sound.

I've tried several high-baffle pieces like Runyon Quantum with Spoiler,Dukoff D and couple of recent purchases,Lamberson 8DD (great piece but sounds more like section piece to me after all) and brass Lawton 8 Star BB.

The Lawton 8 Star BB with a good LaVoz medium/med.hard reed is closest to the sound I'm looking for: bright,clear,projective and aggressive but even the BB chamber seems to be a bit too dark.

It must be that the sound I'm looking for is brighter than usual since none of the high-baffle pieces give me the sound I'm looking for;I want more brightness and edge still.I've tried Plasticovers and synthetics but cane seems to be the only option for me.

Any ideas? I'm getting a bit frustrated here... :x

[MBushaw]

Geez Sam, that's a handful of really bright mouthpieces!
Maybe the horn isn't set up for this?

[MojoBari]

What kind of bari do you have? Did you try bari plastic reeds? Have you tried taking in a lot of mouthpiece? Closer tips with very hard reeds?

[Subtone Sam]

Mbushaw,my horn is Couf Suberba 2,low Bb bari,Keilwerth-made horn from early 70s.Its in OK condition,plays easy,no major leaks,couple of dents but nothing major.

I've listened to some recordings made with Lawton 8*BB (Nick Brignola) and some soundsamples of Lamberson 8DD (by Bootman) and the sound (live and recorded) I get from these mpcs is basically the same.But I still feel I need more edge and kick,maybe I should get my ears cleaned or something... :?

[Subtone Sam]

Mojobari,I've tried Bari plastics and actually just bought a new one (soft instead of medium)

I take in approx. 1/3 of the mpc,about half of the biteplate of the Lawton.

I've tried some closer tips,like .105-.115 but I get better sound with .120-.130 tips and they are easier to control for me.

I use LaVoz medium-hards on the Lamberson 8DD (.120) and LaVoz mediums on Lawton 8*BB (.130).

[mark_m]

Hard to imagine a DD not being bright enough! Are there resonators on that thing? Crazy stuff. I thought I liked bright on bari but the DD is too bright for me! I wonder if Fred would have any ideas for making it still brighter...

[Adam]

I used a Lawton bronze 8*B with an epoxy baffle for about 10 years with excellent results. In '99 I hand picked a Barone T/C bari piece (one of the first metal ones he made) and haven't looked back. Very Cuber-esque sounding. Full, but can be quite bright when pushed, and very free blowing! The only problem with these pieces is that you need to try a few of them because they do vary quite a bit. I liked mine so much, I bought another from Phil as a backup, but unfortunately, it doesn't play anything like the first one (and I sent it back to him twice).

[Anonymous]

Hi Subtone Sam,
I was lookiing for the exact sound you describe. In fact I tried my bari with my tenor mouthpiece and got almost what I was looking for though it wouldn't play in tune. So I sat down and tried to copy my tenor mouthpiece sound and feel (modifying a bari piece). I came very close - not quite there yet but very close and I'm using cane reeds on the bari (plasticover on the tenor) so I suspect plasticover reeds on the bari might get it there. Actually my tenor reeds work pretty well on the bari mouthpiece (have to line them up just right) and it solos very nicely. I haven't been able to find plasticover bari reeds in my strength here in New Zealand. Time to order some I guess.

I ended up with a pretty small chambered piece but it plays in tune on my older Yani - might not on an old Martin but I can usually find places to open the chamber and still preserve the edge when the horn requires a larger chamber.

Blaine

[dolphyo]

steve goodson has on his forum website under mouthpieces fo sale. a J.V.W.made berg larsen rubber .175 with a super high baffle and lowered floor,balanced rails,etc.... steve says he had it made special when some hotshot guitar player joined his band with a full double set of marshall speakers! he had too crank up his bari with this thing? $500.00 i would love to try this for kicks? :?:

[MojoBari]

I've been thinking a while on this. Have you heard any bari playing by Roy Reynolds with Stan Kenton ~70's? He sounds like a chainsaw.

Consider a high baffle, open Berg with a SMS facing. It's tough to find a well made one though. It will have a different sound than the Delrin Quantum with Spoiler. More compact and edgy. The Q is more bratty in the lower register, but is also very bright. Especially if you take in 1/2 - 2/3s of the tooth deck. Taking in less dampens out some edge (which is my preference).

[Bari Gordon]

This is an intriguing post. I can't imagine wanting anything brighter than my Lamberson 8DD. I have four bari sax mouthpieces: a Berg 115/0 HR, a Berg 130/0 Stainless, the Lamberson 8DD, and a Ponzol Custom HR. Every once in a while I play test the pieces, like when I get some new reeds, but I keep ending up, hands down, with the Lamberson.

That said, the Ponzol certainly has an edge to its sound. I play it with a Cordura Carbon Toptone reed (the zebra looking one) and it can cut over just about anything. His metal M2 piece may even be brighter.

[MojoBari]

I have not measured a bari Ponzol, but his tenors have facings on them that lean towards the Berg SMS facing. The Berg is more extreme. I prefer the Ponzol facing but I'm not after an extreme sound.

[Subtone Sam]

Thanks for your comments!

To clarify things a bit: the Lamberson 8DD is a really great mpc as it is,clear and bright sound,very easy to play and control,works better than any bari piece I've tried.It will be my main section/bigband piece,no doubt about it.

However,I think I need a metal mpc for the "solo" sound I'm looking for,the Lawton 8*BB is quite close actually but seems to me it needs some work on the table and facing,it doesn't work too well.Maybe to raise the baffle just a bit still.

The sound I'm looking for is something that can be achieved,its nothing new.I can hear the sound in my head and its just a matter of getting the right mpc for it and the rest is up to me.James Carter has a bari sound that is quite close to what I'm looking for;bright,powerful and aggressive sound.

Mojobari,I've tried the metal Bergs and they are OK but they lack power.I'm not looking for a chainsaw sound but just brighter and more powerful bari sound.

[MojoBari]

I find the Bergs blow stuffy. Good luck on your quest.

[Subtone Sam]

Mojobari,thanks for putting some thought into this matter.

I've found the Bergs stuffy too and stuffiness is something I want to avoid as best as I can.

By the way,Mojobari,are you familiar with the Lawton BBB chamber? The bronze Icon model for tenor comes with very high BBB baffle.I was thinking if it would be possible to reproduce BBB chamber into bari Lawton?

[Anonymous]

Subtone Sam,
Drop me an email -- I'd be interested in chatting about this but don't have your email address. mine is blaine_at_sense_dot_net

[MojoBari]

No, I have not seen the BBB.

[super20dan]

sam -you dont have to have a metal mpc.i play bari in a 60,s -mowtown band and lots of edge and power is a must. i use a ponzel hr custom with plasticover reeds and this combo out does my old dukoff and metal berg . plus its easy to play too. of course it helps when one allready has the loudest ballsest bari ever made (the king super20!}believe it or not a rico metalite will do the job too