Got Bari Questions

[Sigmund451]

I picked up a Bari. A number of people ask if I will work on bari pieces and if Im going to put one out.

Aside from needing to learn my way around a bari I have the following question:

Links are to tenors like Meyers are to altos

What is the primary Goto mouthpiece for Bari Players?

And what opening?

I was thinking of doing my custom Link and Meyer treatment to bari pieces.

Any thoughts...advice?

[themacintrasher]

I've heard Links are good on bari.

[DavidW]

I play a metal Florida Link STM 7* and very happy with it. I would be interested in something similar in HR. I think a lot of people have switched to RPC on bari in the last year or so.

A large chamber offering might be nice too, for those with older baris that have intonation issues with medium or small chamber pieces.

[RS]

Something with a wide tip (.100" on up), large chamber like on a Link, maybe a little extra baffle for some cut.

[Gizmo Hall]

I'd say that most bari players fawn over Berg Larsen, both rubber and metal. I personally enjoy my Runyon Quantum Metal.

[MojoBari]

I have heard that vintage HR Bergs are popular. Maybe this was true at one time for NYC. But in practice, I have not observed a go-to bari mouthpiece for bari sax.

[Martin Williams]

On bari, some bit of baffle is a good thing. Not necessarily a massive wedge but you know what I mean. Whats been good for me are berg 1 or 2 baffles, Jody Jazz ESP, Dukoff Ds, etc.

As for an opening, most players(jazz at least) tend to prefer tips .100+. I tend to like them around .120 personally.

[Tom ed]

I like the metal Q as well, tips around .115. One of the other bari players I know uses HR bergs with .100 plus openings.

[Rahspeak]

I play a HR link with baffle by Phil Barone, and I really dig it, but I think the "Link is to tenor, Meyer is to alto" bari piece is the Berg Larsen, and Selmer on Soprano.

[silverselmer]

I agree with the Berg Larsen statement, however most of the pros I see play otto link (Gary Smulyan) and the local guys play HR mpc's...including me.

[bfoster64]

Yeah, it's not as obvious as Meyer/alto and Link/tenor, but I'd go with the Berg as a good standard on bari.

This is not to say that the Berg is the best piece available, just that it's been around for a while, a lot of good bari players choose it, and its characteristics seem to match well with the design and natural timbre of the instrument.

In fact, I just got a Berg 120 with a No. 1 chamber. Sounds awesome.

I like my Link STM (early Babbitt, also 120 tip) on bari for the phat low end and resonant sound, but the music I play requires more projection in the upper octave.

I also like my Jary custom bari piece, which is sort of like an HR Link but with a long, medium-height rollover baffle. Unfortunately, I've decided the tip (size 108) is too small for the sound I'm after.

Bari is tough to dial in but when you get a good setup it is oh so fun to play.

If you want a big, modern sound, I'd highly recommend a tip of at least 115 and reeds in the 2.5 range.

[Gizmo Hall]

One thing I would want to warn about the newer Bergs is their quality. Me, and several others, have had issues with the facing on our new rubber and metal Bergs. I hear that Berg has let its quality control slip recently.

[Rahspeak]

One thing I would want to warn about the newer Bergs is their quality. Me, and several others, have had issues with the facing on our new rubber and metal Bergs. I hear that Berg has let its quality control slip recently.

That's why Phil-Tone would be refacing them ;)

I would think the HR bergs would be a good piece for you to use as a blank. Although it's true that it's not as cut and dry on bari as Meyers are on alto or Links are on tenor, I think that the basic question comes down to design...medium chambers have worked for a lot of A LOT of guys on alto historically and ditto for large round chambers on tenor. whether the mouthpiece says Meyer or Morgan 6M, for example, or Otto Link or ______ isn't as important as the fact that these designs allow the player a lot of flexibility while still being a good choice to help one achieve a "characteristic" sound on these instruments. Of course there are many exceptions but there are also MANY examples of this holding true.

with that in mind, bari just seems, to me, to play better with at least a healthy amount of baffle, and Bergs were the "go-to" high baffle pieces back in the day. So now on this thread, we have peple who like Runyons, and others rave about RPCs and Lambersons, but they all have the baffle in common. Even my Link, I think, plays so much better because of the huge baffle. Unlike the other horns, even with a high baffle, it is hard to make the bari sound thin.

if you Phil-Tonize some HR bergs, the blanks aren't terribly pricey ($150...hey bari gear is expensive) and you get chamber and baffle configurations that are proven to work, so you don't have to do anything with epoxy or anything like that. just give it your well-regarded hand finishing and it should turn out to be an affordable but very good option for bari players...which we need...have you seen the prices of bari reeds lately???

[MojoBari]

Rahspeak, are you confusing Phil Barone with Phil-Tone?

[Sigmund451]

I think he is talking about Phil-Tone....though I share Phil Barone's general view of Bergs....just not quite as openly or intensely ;)

....at least I havent considered a bonfire as he has suggested!

[rhysonsax]

In the UK (at least) Lawtons are a very commonly seen bari mouthpiece. Pro bari players include Alan Barnes (ebonie), Jay Craig (metal), Alan Wakeman (metal), Jim Corry (ebonite).

Other than that, Bergs are very popular.

Rhys

[Rahspeak]

I was talking about Phil-TONE, though it could be confusing, because my bari piece is an HR Link reworked by Phil BARONE. Though you guys may dislike Bergs, they are pretty common on bari. I played a 110/2 M that had great potential--it could really cut through and play LOUD (a bari needs to be able to get really loud) but also kept a fullness of sound. I'm guessing it had the same poor finishing work that many people complain about with modern bergs, because it was reed picky and could be really unresponsive at times.

Phil-tone, is there something you don't like about the inherent design of Bergs, or is it just the poor facings and such?

[blindside398]

I love my metalite.
period brothas.

[MPL]

I've been alternating between a Jary Custom (.113) and a HR Berg 100/3. I test drove a couple of new Bergs two years ago and they were nothing special. Neither was as good as the one I own, which is at least 20 years old.

[MM]

Phil,

Like Mojo said, I have not seen the equivalent of a Meyer for alto or Link for tenor on the bari. So best is to check this forum to see what people like.

The recommendations for some baffle assume you are playing something other than legit quartet literature.

For a cheap mpc, the Rico Graftonite is about it, followed I guess by a Runyon Custom. I have heard of people reworking Graftonites, though some folks say the polycarbonate is difficult to file precisely.

[Sigmund451]

In the long run Im actually looking for something to add to my line of refaced pieces.

As for bergs...on tenor...I just dont like them...they just dont do it for me. Its not that some guys dont sound great on them...Its just not my thing.

Now, as far as the new HR bergs go (Ive only played the new tenors)....I think they bring design abominations in mouthpieces to a whole new level.

[Kini]

I'd offer up the Vandoren B75 as a modern standard. It has some edge, and has a bullet like chamber aka Berg. When I tried it a year ago, I hated it (which turned out to be a reed selection issue), but its the piece Im playing on now; I'm doing some extended subbing in a big band and it's working out very well. (BTW- the Vandoren ZZ reeds were awful for me, standard Rico Orange box works great though).

On the 2 I've played, I think they could both use a little clean up.

However, the HR Links are pretty cheap, so you could possibly offer perfected Links at a price point that would be similar to a stock B75.

Edit: I have a Lamberson 7M thats wonderful as well. If they are "vintage" Meyer repros, maybe you could do somthing with a new Meyer as well.

There you go: perfected Links and Meyers in .110 (.108) only. Where do I sign up?

[saxophrenic]

Now, as far as the new HR bergs go (Ive only played the new tenors)....I think they bring design abominations in mouthpieces to a whole new level.

There you go Phil, more good work and opportunity for you.
I'll need to talk with you when I get back to OR (in Wisconsin now for jazz camp) about trying to reface a HR Berg for me. Just got a Barone bari but don't have the Berg yet.

TTYL
Chuck8-)