Just can't get altissimo!! :?

[starfluf]

Hey guys,
I've been playing tenor 5 years, am really happy with my set up and my tone (have had plenty of compliments on it, which is nice of course) the prob is I just can't 'get' altissimo. I know my set up, in theory, is ok (my sax teacher played my sax, with my mouthpiece and my reed and did fine!) I've got the rascher book and am working on overtones and can get Bb2 F2 Bb3 and sometimes D2 off bottom Bb, I can get G3 with a front F fingering and then that's it! I got A3 once and haven't got a clue how I got that! The rest of the time it's just a duff pitch (using LH 2 3 fingers)
Please help me - i'm doing repetoire that demands altissimo now and am getting frustrated. Am i biting too hard and restricting air flow? What sound should i try and produce - an 'ee' 'oo' 'ahh' etc? Any help would be much much appreciated. THanks!! Sarah

[kingperkoff]

You're doing all the right things, have patience. Can't your teacher help?
A3 is relatively easier I use L23and the left little finger(G#). Sing it and then play it.
You might need a harder reed, try increasing the strength.
Good Luck!

[RaZaDAM]

I don't think putting on a harder reed would work too well, especially if you aren't used to a harder reed and it's brand new. A brand new reed sends me miles high, too high, instead of the pitches i want. Just make sure your reed is well broken in. I'm 17 years old, and i started playing Altissimo when i was 15. My friend taught me some fingerings, G3, and A3, and D4. I worked out the rest myself. I would say getting A3 is the easiest. I use...LH 2 3, and that's it. It just comes popping out. If you can get the overtones fluently enough then you should be starting to get the right embouchure for playing altissimo, just practise and have patience, don't over blow, don't under blow. Infact, i think a softer appraoch to them often works better, just play it really quiet and gradually get louder until you find the right balance.

Good luck!

Adam!

[gary]

I'm just going to state a fact without commentary, starfluf, and you can see how it fits your needs.

Ben (King) Perkoff is a master at altissimo. I've got a CD of his that gives the dog's in my neighborhood nose bleed :shock:

The man KNOWS altissimo...and higher.

[starfluf]

Hey thanks for the replies. My teacher spent a half hour on altissimo about 6 months but i wasn't getting anywhere with it so we decided it would be best to leave it for a while as a load of other stuff on the piece i was working on needed a look at (tommy Smith sonata - absolutely gorgeous apart from the A3s!) so i keep trying to do it in my practice sessions, but am getting so peeved off with myself for not getting em i usually give up after 20 mins of all honk and no high note! (Err maybe that's not helping myself there! :? ) I really wouldn't want to use a harder strength reed as i'd loose the responce and control over the rest of the normal range i think. i'll try out the LH 23 + G# fingering and let you know. Any other fingering and tips would really really be very helpful.

[homemakerjeb]

Hey starfluf. A3 was the first altissimo note I ever got to sound using (LH 23 RH 123 [remove right hand if it's sharp]). Anyway, something that really might help you is working on overtones. Also, try arching your tongue to increase airspeed.

[Flatted 5th]

I agree with kingperkoff; ask your teacher to run through a fingering chart that works for you and stick with it. There are many ways to play the Altissimo and it can get confusing if you are working on different ways to play it.
Just on this thread there have been 3 different ways to play A3........
here's #4 :? : left 23/ right 12.

[starfluf]

hehehehe!! :lol: well thanks for your advice - i popped me out some A3s today and quite a lot of em! the trick was arching me tongue i think and putting less bottom lip on so thanks to homemakerjeb for that top tip along with all the other advice - thanks! - got it with LH23 only so pretty chuffed. Just hoping on getting higher now - spose once you know what you're doing, you know what you're doing if you know what i mean :wink:
Thanks again!! sarah

[homemakerjeb]

Congrats, Sarah. The thing with altissimo is that all of a sudden it just starts happening. Good luck!

Adam

[ReedSplitterRev]

I agreee w/ homemakerjeb in that one day it just seems to appear. The day I hit G3 was a great day! From there it became easy. I also had been doing 'versions' of altissimo without knowing it...seems those overtones were ok sounding afterall.

I have a great book on altissimo that I'll dig the title up for you when I get home. It revolves around, and starts out doing overtones on low Bb and going up from there. It was very helpfull and that's where I tend to start out with advise to players looking to go higher.

Keep with it...soon you'll be doing long tone scales to F#4.

Trevor

[Josh]

I say don't just play overtones, but do exercises with them, e.g., slurring around in the series. That gets you used to laryngeal control, which is all altissimo is anyway. Overtones are definitely the most important thing you could do here; if you spend twenty minutes trying to play high notes, you've wasted your time.

[schnibs]

try this too, when playing high F with the two front keys and octave, add the side Bb key to get an F#. This is what loads of people have to do to get it and technically its an altissimo note. The embouchure required for it to be steady should allow you to slide up to a G3. I would try it this way if getting A3 is proving difficult. G3 and G#3 are probs 2 of the hardest notes to get but if you can hear the note, even for a brief moment, then
1. its a confidence builder
2. it gives you something to start on

hope this helps
schnibs :wink:

[nateissaxy]

The first Altissimo i popped out was D4. a good way to try to get the Altissimo notes down is to try to squeak into the mouthpiece. i know it sound strange because that is what you tried your hardest not to do when you first started to play, but it is a good way to help the embouchure get it right. i also play fairly hard reads on everything, and that helps a lot. i would say try harder reads to learn to play the Altissimo and then go back to your normal reads. once you get it on one it isnt that hard to switch to something else.

[jasongoblue]

I agree with Josh, 100%. Do exercises with overtones until you can hit the overtones on the first try. It's ALL about control of the soft pallet and tongue in the back of your throat. You know, how you are arching your tongue? Your upper throat can also flex. Once you learn to flex your tongue and upper throat together, fingering will become nearly irrelevant. You will be able to use your throat to glissando all around the upper registers.

Have you heard of the "F-trick"? This is warping the pitch of forked, front F by flexing your throat. Most people master the warp by first holding forked F3 and tonguing "Tee-Kee" or "Tah-Kah". As your tongue moves in an exaggerated fashion, the note will begin to warp. Slow the motion down and learn to control this warp. You will soon be able to warp from F3 down to at least D3. Your tongue may get sore at first, so be careful and rest often! Use similar tongue position to move up through the altissimo register using suggested fingerings.

You'll not be able to control pitch by simply biting and you will not have control over altissimo chromatics. Focus on controlling the air stream with the tongue and throat. Good luck!

Good luck!

[Morry]

When I had my tonsils and adenoids removed about 8 years ago, the doctor ended up taking my uvula and part of the soft palate to help with my snoring and sleep apnea. I've always wondered how that will affect my overtone and altissimo playing in the long run. Back when I had it done, I wasn't into working on expanding my range, so it wasn't an issue.

[jasongoblue]

Morry,

This would be an interesting study. I would imagine your control would depending on the severity of the surgery. If you have and soft pallet left, it can probably be retrained and would function appropriately? Then again, if you have no flexibility left the surgery could be devestating for control of the tone, intonation, and altissimo using the throat.

[noelpaz]

Aside from the overtones and other tips mentioned here -- you have to hear an altissimo note in your head. So what i do to get to G3 is play G2 D3 and then I have a reference of what G3 would sound like because I have previously heard the D and lower G. I incorporate this with my practice - helps also with my altissimo intonation, I go from G to D on a bad day quite easily now and have no problems going up to G4 on most days. However I feeel that on the tenor, I rarely go beyond C4 - at the most D4

Also once you got the notes pretty mastered, it is imperative to do licks and phrases on altissimo notes and the more pianissimo you can go the better.

What I am really trying to do is getting a rounder sounding altissimn and not as piercing and thin. I have heard some classical recordings of this tone and Jan Garbarek does it a lot that he sounds flutelike or soprano like on his altissimo -anybody has tips how to do this?

[starfluf]

hey guys - the altisimo chase is going pretty good- consistantly getting those A3s some A#3s and D3s (G3 ok anyway for some reason) think it really was the case of patience and once figuring what kinda support i need and embouchure - so if any of you guys reading this having probs with altissimo - be patient i promise. Still using 2 1/2 ZZ reeds and they get the notes (without suffering at all on the rest of the notes and tone) - especially in first week or so of blowing a new one in. just a question on how to more whisper the high notes rather than them sounding too strong? - is wierd as when doing overtones i can realy get quite high with support but less breath and volume. any suggestions would be muchly appreciated! (thanks for advice so far!!)
sarah