priority of doubles

[beth]

im curious what you guys think of which doubles are most important to a specific player.
you have the pit orchestra setting to consider, then of course big band, which is a bit different.

i am mainly an oboe/english horn player and alto player. what do you guys think should be my priority of horns?

big band i think is easiest - im usually reading the Alto 2 book, so i think flute would be first priority, clarinet second. that's all that one would probably come across...maybe an alto flute part on a rare occasion. for Alto 1, i'd say soprano, then clarinet, then flute, (although flute and clarinet could be interchanged depending on the rep. a group is doing), and then possibly piccolo.
do you these observations are correct?

for pits, its quite different.
oboe/EH part are usually reed 3, which is tenor (one of the sole reasons i own a tenor, ive done more shows on tenor than alto, even when theres no oboe part), and clarinet. so as an oboist, tenor and clarinet should be my top priorities i suppose. but ive also played tenor books which are flute, tenor and clarinet, and the flute part often being the lead flute part. my head hurts. anyway, tons of shows have no double reeds, so many times im going at it from a sax point of view. if playing alto, flute and picc are probably most important, soprano most important in other shows. clarinet fairly secondary as i find the lead clari parts are usually in lower books. tenor on the other hand is heavy on clarinet, sometimes even bass clarinet. flute is secondary, but i guess occasionally important, but most often the flute is in the higher books. soprano might also pop up i suppose. ive never found myself reading lower books, bari/bass clar/bassoon, despite having bassoon chops and having devoted a good amount of time to bass clarinet.

so...basically, what im getting at, what should be my priority of instuments, for purchase/upgrade and for focus on chops? what instruments should i own pro/semi-pro set-ups and what would student/intermediate suffice for?

this is what i think, but i want opinions also:
oboe/alto are a given in this case.

1. flute (top priority)
2. Bb clarinet
3. tenor
4. soprano
5. piccolo
6. bass clarinet
7. Eb clarinet
8. misc. horns (alto flute, recorders, bari, bassoon, etc.) (low priority)

[Steve J.]

Sounds well thought out to me and right on fwiw. Congrats on the double reed thing already happening.

As far as initial equipment (my opinion) focus expenses on a quality flute headjoint. The difference in bodys is minimal. Intermediate level single reed instruments are fine but spare no money or effort on mouthpiece selections. Upgrade equipment as mentally justified and finances will allow. Try to enjoy the experiences.

[Merlin]

If you're mainly an oboe/EH player who has a solid saxophone double, you'll be a prime candidate for pit shows.

The Producers, for one, has a reed 4 book that's tenor sax/oboe/EH/clarinet/alto flute.

Cabaret is tenor/oboe/EH/clarinet.

There are many others.

1. clarinet
2. flute

That's where I think you should concentrate.

[AMASAX]

well, you have a good beginning here, based on pit work, big band work, etc, but here's another order to consider(and reasons why):

* flute
* clarinet
* optional oboe/eng horn/bassoon here.
* alto sax
* tenor

if you want oboe/eng horn/bassoon, you'd probably fit them
in as above...

here's the rationale:

Flute, cuz there's no way around it, if you want flute(picc) in
the list, it's gotta come first until you really have it down.

Clarinet, cuz EVERY non-clarinet player struggles w/clarinet
and usually doesn't get it right. It has ALL of the problems
of the other woodwinds wrapped up in one horn.
Plus, chops requirements mean you've gotta have it high on
the list.

Sax - i listed alto sax before tenor because chops-wise, it's
easier to keep your alto chops up and drop back to tenor
than to do the other way around.
Soprano is not even on the list, cuz your clarinet/alto chops
will suffice for soprano, and you won't get much call for
soprano.

This list is drawn up in priority order of what it'll take to keep
you up on woodwinds, not necessarily the order in which
you get the most calls to play. If you get a call for a specific
horn/gig, then adjust the order accordingly.
However, when in maintenance/improving mode on the
horns, this is a better order in which to work, that will also
allow you to grab a horn & blow on short notice.

Is also worth noting that most really good woodwind doublers who play a wide variety of woodwinds started out as clarinet
players, and some on flute.
Clarinet(and flute) are such a large hurdle to overcome that
most people starting on sax or double reed never quite
overcome all of the problems of these two horns.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Almost every reed part needs clarinet. If you are playing EH/Oboe then you are very unlikely to be playing a lead clarinet part.

If you are serious about doubling then you should get mastery of flute as soon as possible. In my opinion there are very few doublers doing justice to flute who start on reeds and migrate to flute. The excellent doublers I know started on flute.

Playing pleasantly, in tune, and with volume control in the third octave, where flute often is, is your biggest remaining challenge. (Includes piccolo!) Unless you become this proficient on flute you will also be a liability on the parts that harmonise the 1st flute parts, simply because they will sound better as a well-played solo by the other player than with you stuffing it up with inferior tone and tuning. Good flute playing demands a LOT of foundation hard slog, which doublers seldom have the time for.

Your second biggest is mastery of the clarinet 'over the break'. One irony is that 2nd or 3rd clarinet parts are sometimes more difficult than first, because they spend a lot of time negotiating the break.

[beth]

thanks for all the input you guys have put in so far...

i guess i find myself lucky that i started on flute and then migrated to reeds...
i spent 4 years on flute before ever touching another instrument, my second instrument being alto sax.
my progression was from flute, to sax, to clarinet, to double reeds. watching people go from reeds to flute, im often thankful i started on flute. and im happy i got my feet wet in the reeds with sax...cuz i may not have ventured on if it had picked up oboe or clarinet at that time. my flute chops i suppose rank somewhere in between. flute was my "main" instrument through 11th grade and was the first instrument i considered going to school on. then i put it down for almost a year and lost a lot of my playing. over the past few years i think ive gotten it back and possibly beyond where it was. i undoubtly feel im better at flute than "reed" doublers, but obviously not at the level of a "flute player". id like to get as close to the "flute player" sound and agility as i can. at this point, i think my biggest problem is my horn - an out of adjustment student silver plated model. i dont want to put in the money for an overhaul knowing that soon ill just buy a new flute altogether. i just dont know how soon is soon.

clarinet is another story. im halfway decent, and can manage my way around the break with some profieciency. ive doubled with other sax players, and of them ive been the strongest clarinet player...its those damn clarinet players who double and rock on the sax and blow us away on clarinet that are the problem :P of course i could always use more technique, and im working towards that. but i think my sound could be a bit better. its not awful...but not great. i play on a buffet E-11 and a b-45, either with mitchell lurie, vandoren, or legere reeds. pretty standard. any suggestions on other possible mouthpiece choices?

as you can see through my posts in different topics, ive become quite serious in doubling. i dont call myself an "oboist", "saxophonist", "flutist", or anything like that...i really feel my niche is as a doubler....and really want to persue it. any advice or anything anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

[bpimentel]

Beth, I think your priority list looks pretty accurate. A few observations:

The last two shows I played, Guys and Dolls and Crazy for You, both had serious lead clarinet stuff in the Reed 1 books. I'm not sure I agree that lead clarinet parts are always in the lower books. Ditto for big bands, especially bands with more "traditional" repertoire (Benny Goodman, Woody Herman, Artie Shaw, Glenn Miller...)

Also, piccolo was the best investment of time and money I ever made in terms of getting gigs. I sound terrible on it, but many doublers seem to shy away from it. So I take their gigs because I'm the one willing to give it a shot. If you're playing pretty good flute already, it might not hurt to consider moving piccolo up on the list.

Bret Pimentel

[Gordon (NZ)]

.....I'm not sure I agree that lead clarinet parts are always in the lower books.....

I, too, am not sure I agree. The clarinet is often in albums 1 or 2 for the 157 seasons I've played.

[beth]

i've been considering buying a picc for the past month....it seems to be the cheapest investment out of all of them. im not too afraid of it...i spent 9th and 10th grade playing picc in my youth orchestra, and on random occasions through out high school and even for all-county jazz band. it still is an evil instrument though.
maybe i shall look into it deeper. should i go all out for wood or just solid silver?

[Gordon (NZ)]

The wooden Yamaha YPC62 has impressed many players, is very well made, reliable, and excellent value for money. It is indeed rare for an instrument to have got such universal praise as this model has.

[bpimentel]

The wooden Yamaha YPC62 has impressed many players, is very well made, reliable, and excellent value for money.

Agreed. I think the YPC32 is also a fine piccolo for the money (cheaper than the 62). It has a silver headjoint, which I personally find a little easier to play, and a plastic body. It has a conical bore like an expensive wood piccolo.

[Gordon (NZ)]

Yes, that one is good too. But it is silver-plated, not 'silver', which implies sterling silver in my book.