BEAUGNIER Tenor [Archive] - Sax on the Web Forum

mhoyoux

06-22-2008, 06:14 PM

goodsax

06-22-2008, 07:32 PM

The Vito Beaugnier-stencil tenor, being made in France, has the French sound. A Beaugnier tenor should not be any different. My Vito Beaugnier, for example, has a wonderful tone full of resonance and color and I'm often asked what kind of sax it is and what setup am I using to make that happen.

I bought my Vito Beaugnier tenor from honkytone a couple of years ago for under $800 and it plays, IMHO, as good as French-made horns (read Selmer) the least expensive of which cost several hundred dollars more. Or, for the purists who are igniting their flame throwers, it seems that way to me.

I think the "Selmerish" sound is a subset of the French sound family. Several French-made saxes produce a sound - geographically correct to refer to these as French sounds - different from, and arguably better than, saxes made anywhere else in the world. But, what is a pleasing sound to some, could be noise to others, it being a highly subjective issue.

That said, there is nothing like a good condition Mark VI tenor, or alto for that matter, if you can afford one.

kimslava

06-22-2008, 07:56 PM

Have you checked out the videos from 'jazzmanted', like this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWQNh9O_G7g)?

That might help.

goodsax

06-23-2008, 12:15 AM

That guy is due some respect. It's too bad his illness has affected his ability to play full time. As he mentions in one of his videos, he plays in all 12 keys, can play the entire Omnibook even with his illness at half to 3/4 speed, and plays everything from bassoon to piccolo, words to that effect. And, on top of all that, he seems to know what he's talking about when it comes to repairing horns.

Very interesting gentleman.

Thanks, Kim, for sharing the video. I remember watching the one with him showing the Rationale setup.

Yellowhorn

06-25-2008, 06:51 AM

Hello !!

Is a BEAUGNIER Tenor sax a "viable" alternative to the search of the french sound (AKA SELMERISH sound) ??

This horn has slick action ? Dark sound type ?! Open sound ?

A completly overhauled and in excellent condition one for less than 1500 $ is a bargain ?!

thanks !

In addition to Beaugnier, there are other French brands that make fine saxes: Buffet, SML, Pierret. While the 6 is legendary a horn, it is known for inconsistency: that is, not every 6 plays well, but it does sure cost a lot.

So, as Goodsax put it, you can have a French horn that costs less than a 6.

warp x

06-25-2008, 07:48 AM

Or a Couesnon.. There's one far sale near Belgium, cheap too.

Scott Marlowe

07-05-2008, 05:47 AM

I insist on adding Dolnet to the list. :)

sax-ony

07-05-2008, 08:06 AM

I insist on adding Dolnet to the list. :)

I respectfully request that you take it off again ;).

There have been reports of very good ones, but overall I think Dolnets are a much riskier buy than a Beaugnier or a Couesnon. I started a thread about this a while back:

http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=59336

I've not played a Beaugnier Vito, but I have recently had an original Beaugnier alto and tenor (both early 1950s, I think) overhauled and they play very well indeed. I previously had a very slightly later tenor, and that also was very good. For me, definitely one of the easier vintage actions, first class intonation, and a warm, rounded, lyrical tone.

mhoyoux

07-05-2008, 08:44 AM

Or a Couesnon.. There's one far sale near Belgium, cheap too.

Hi !!

Can you tell me where ??

thanks.

warp x

07-05-2008, 08:46 AM

About halfway down the page (http://www.muziekcentrumvangorp.nl/catalogus/?categorieID=86&menuitemID=573#artikel132)

mhoyoux

07-05-2008, 10:09 AM

About halfway down the page (http://www.muziekcentrumvangorp.nl/catalogus/?categorieID=86&menuitemID=573#artikel132)

Thanks for the link ;)...This is a serious and honest seller (muziekcentrumvangorp) ???

Scott Marlowe

07-05-2008, 11:33 AM

I respectfully request that you take it off again ;).

There have been reports of very good ones, but overall I think Dolnets are a much riskier buy than a Beaugnier or a Couesnon. I started a thread about this a while back:

http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=59336

Read the thread way back when, and I respectfully disagree. Your sample size isn't really big enough to condemn a production run of some 80,000+ horns. My experience with them (only a couple so far) has been much more positive, as has that of many other dolnet players on this board.

So no, I don't take it off. It's not like when you buy one of the other horns listed that they won't come with some problems either.

warp x

07-05-2008, 01:21 PM

Thanks for the link ;)...This is a serious and honest seller (muziekcentrumvangorp) ???

Yes. It's a rather large shop. I only spoke to them over the phone, but they were very helpful. Just give them a call, I'd say.

sax-ony

07-05-2008, 01:28 PM

Your sample size isn't really big enough to condemn a production run of some 80,000+ horns.

Of course you are absolutely right, and I do not mean to "condemn" anything. Sample size is always a problem when evaluating these less-well-known saxes; another problem is that people often play them in less-than-perfect adjustment because they are not commercially worth the cost of an overhaul.

I only comment here on instruments I have had fully repadded and set up to play at their best. In this category, I have had three Beaugniers (1950s), one Couesnon (1960s) and two Dolnets (1950s). The tone, intonation, and build-quality were significantly better on the Beaugniers and the Couesnon than on the Dolnets.

That is just one person's experience added to the mix. However, I do think the accumulated experience of posters here shows that Beaugnier and Couesnon are at least more consistently good than Dolnet. For this reason, I would say they are a better bet to buy at a distance, untested.

Scott Marlowe

07-05-2008, 04:51 PM

That is just one person's experience added to the mix. However, I do think the accumulated experience of posters here shows that Beaugnier and Couesnon are at least more consistently good than Dolnet. For this reason, I would say they are a better bet to buy at a distance, untested.

Yeah, even I can agree on that. I do believe that later models were better put together, since that's mostly what I've seen and they were put together pretty well. I've never heard reports of the M70 series from the 1970s being built poorly either. I always wonder if there's a range of serial numbers where the production quality dropped for a while...

GASTON

07-10-2008, 01:37 PM

I've got a Beaugnier special perfect tenor (and also an alto), it's quite à good sax. It has a very nice dark sound and a good action. I've tried a Dolnet which had a similar sound but not such a good action.

sax-ony

07-10-2008, 01:53 PM

it's quite à good sax.

This sounds like a carefully considered assessment. Would you care to elaborate on why, for you, it isn't "good" or "very good"?

GASTON

07-10-2008, 03:40 PM

I'm definitly "quite a bad" english speaker !
I just mean I love it !

sax-ony

07-10-2008, 09:53 PM

I'm definitly "quite a bad" english speaker !
I just mean I love it !

I'm sure your English is much better than my French! I love mine too. I'd be interested to know the approximate serial numbers of your Beaugniers. I have alto 19XX and tenor 20XX, both in silver. The bells are engraved "Fabrication Artistique" and they are earlier than the Special Perfect; but, judging from the photos I have seen, they are effectively the same model.

I'd also be glad to know what mouthpieces you have found to give good results on these horns.

GASTON

07-11-2008, 12:42 PM

Hi,

My both Beaugniers are "special perfect", my alto (49xx) is silvered with gold in the bell, my tenor (61xx) is nikeled. They have the bell keys on the right side.

http://www.freewebs.com/gastonlg/Beaugnier.JPG

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2688/09072008002vq2.jpg

GASTON

07-11-2008, 12:58 PM

I have seen an alto "fabrication artistique" very silimar to mine exept the gold, the tuner and the G# system.
I use a custumed Brilhart mouthpiece with the alto, it sounds very nice, better than with my Morgan (too strong). For the tenor I don't know yet wich one i will choose between my brilhart and my Link. At the moment I plays better with the Brilhart I used to play with my last tenor. I only have this tenor since a few weeks.

mhoyoux

07-11-2008, 01:07 PM

goodsax

07-11-2008, 01:41 PM

Hi,

My both Beaugniers are "special perfect", my alto (49xx) is silvered with gold in the bell, my tenor (61xx) is nikeled. They have the bell keys on the right side.
Beautiful instruments, Gaston.

GASTON

07-11-2008, 01:54 PM

Mhoyoux, You're from Belgium, if you can speak french, (i'll not be able to answer all your questions in english) you can send me PM.

You can also see there :
http://www.saxofan.fr/topic1631.html

GASTON

07-11-2008, 01:56 PM

Beautiful instruments, Gaston.

Thanks ;-)

mhoyoux

07-11-2008, 02:31 PM

Cher ami gaulois,

j'en prends bonne note et vous recontacte en message privé. Merci pour ce lien intéressant...

Max.

sax-ony

07-11-2008, 03:47 PM

I have seen an alto "fabrication artistique" very silimar to mine exept the gold, the tuner and the G# system.

Yes, those are the differences I have noticed too. I will try to get some pictures of mine up soon. I did have another Beaugnier "Fabrication Artistique" tenor which I sold a while ago. I see my Ebay photos of that one were grabbed by Saxpics, so they can be viewed here:

http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/Beaugnier/tenors/3388/

It played very similarly to the tenor I have now, about which more later...

GASTON

07-11-2008, 04:13 PM

Yes, very similar but not exactly the same, the hight F key is also different.

sax-ony

07-11-2008, 04:49 PM

Yes, very similar but not exactly the same, the hight F key is also different.

Yes, the "Special Perfect" does seem to be a development of the "Fabrication Artistique", rather than a whole new model. You are right about the Artistiqe's unusual high F key on a long rod. I think it is a nice refinement, expecially the way it links with the front F key. I have had two Dolnets (alto and tenor) with a similar arrangement; but on the Dolnets the rod was used to include a fourth key as a left-hand high F#. (Very cool!)

sax-ony

07-12-2008, 04:24 PM

OK, here are my Beaugnier "Fabrication Artistique" tenor (20xx) and alto (19xx).

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w237/sax-ony/Beaugniers/Both02.jpg

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w237/sax-ony/Beaugniers/Both01.jpg

More detailed pictures here:

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w237/sax-ony/Beaugniers/?albumview=grid

I (and my repairer) both think these are really well-built, nice playing saxophones. Ergonomics, intonation, response, all up there with the best from (we guess) the 1940s.

I am still deciding on mouthpieces for the alto, but the tenor (like another I used to own) prefers long mouthpieces (or they have to be hanging off the end to play in tune) with medium+ squarish chambers. The following (all metal) work well: Vandoren V16, Wolf Tayne, Guy Hawkins, but best of all is a Zinner Ed Sperber 5*C (the chamber they call "soft", but which could equally be called "warm"). I have found both my Beaugnier tenors to be flat at the top with some mouthpieces, but intonation is excellent with these four.

mhoyoux

11-15-2008, 06:57 AM

Finally, has anyone tried the BEAUGNIER on junkdude.com ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Max.

sax-ony

09-09-2009, 12:54 PM

I am still deciding on mouthpieces for the alto

I wrote that on this thread back in July '08, regarding my Fabrication Artistique alto. Just to keep things up-to-date, I can report that I've settled, for now, on a Morgan Vintage 7. I would still highly recommend these horns if you come across one.